Talk:Alexandre Mars

Promotion by paid contributor in this article

@Jennepicfoundation: and her now-blocked sockpuppets have repeatedly made paid edits to this article and a number of editors have counseled this editor that Jennepicfoundation's edits contain a tone that is inappropriate for an encyclopedia. @MelanieN: has pointed out on Jenn's talk page that Jenn has "been stuffing the article full of promotional stuff and we can't have that." and "From now on, ask at the article's talk page if you want anything added to the article. Sorry, but you pushed the envelope too far."

Jenn ignored this, and recently added well-sourced but still promotional material again recently. If she cannot abide by the WP:COI restrictions, I'm afraid administrative action will have to be pursued which will likely be either a topic ban, or blocking, since she appears to be a WP:SPA here only to promote her employer. Toddst1 (talk) 19:55, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

@Toddst1: I am not a paid contributor! I'm just trying to edit this page with updated information on Alexandre Mars because there is a lot of new information to be added. Did you see all of the sources that I had? I don't understand, this information is all cited as you said yourself. If I can't insert the cited content, then how else am I supposed to add information to this page? You removed a lot of the information that was PREVIOUSLY APPROVED by the community. I need an explanation for this. You need to move past the "I'm only here to promote my employer" BS. I'm inserting UPDATED CONTENT, ALL CITED as you can see yourself. I'm not fabricating anything. How was this page as I had edited any different than, say, Scott Harrison's page? I followed a very similar method in inserting content as the two individuals are very similar and if Scott Harrison's page is approved, then Alexandre Mars's should have no problem in being approved either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jennepicfoundation (talk • contribs) 23:00, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

So you're not paid as Director of Communications for Epic Foundation? Even if that's true, WP:COI would still apply.

There is no previous approval for any content on wikipedia. We work on an evolving consensus through editing. Regarding my changes, it's not that the info you stuffed into that article was not cited - it's that some info was off-topic, other info seemed promotional. This is an encyclopedia - not a puff piece for your boss. Toddst1 (talk) 23:17, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

@Toddst1: YES, THERE WAS PREVIOUS APPROVAL HENCE WHY THE INFORMATION HAD NOT BEEN TOUCHED IN OVER A YEAR. Go look through the history of the edit and you can see for yourself. It will be reverted back to the edits from summer 2015 as these edits were all APPROVED by the community, regardless of how you think the page should look now. This is ridiculous. Point out to me the areas that are "off-topic." My job is not to sit at my desk and write Wikipedia articles, so no, I'm not a paid contributor. For all you know I could be a volunteer, so please, get off your high horse in thinking that my position interferes with the authenticity and relativity of the content. If someone that knows his story well isn't able to contribute and receive constructive feedback, if and when there's something wrong, from the editors of the wiki community, instead of the internet bullying and criticism that's been received over the last two years, then I really don't understand how you can say you're doing society a favor with your work.

I want some questions answered. If all of my information is well-cited as you put it, how is the content off-topic? Aren't all the sources pertaining to Alexandre Mars? Shouldn't his Wiki page be a compilation of all of those sources? How is updating/adding information on what he does now in his life irrelevant? How is adding information on his business irrelevant, assuming the information is analytical and free from opinion (which it was)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jennepicfoundation (talk • contribs) 16:01, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

No, there are no "approved version(s)." Period.

I normally wouldn't point out stuff like this but since you've self-identified using both your name (full name in one of your socks) and identifying your official position at Epic Foundation, I don't believe this is WP:OUTING. Your online resume [9] shows that you were directly responsible for placing most of the supposedly WP:RS used to support this article. In your list of accomplishments, you list:

"* TV, online, print and radio interview/placements in Financial Times, Bloomberg Business (TV/online), Crain's New York Business & San Francisco Chronicle " ​

I can't imagine anyone having more of a blatant and biased WP:COI on Wikipedia. You're creating the sources you are citing in an effort to promote your boss' image.

@MelanieN:, might you weigh in here? It looks to me like Jenn's agenda is not congruent with the spirit of editing on Wikipedia and certainly not within the guidelines you set forth for her after her previous instances of using Wikipedia for promotion of her boss. Toddst1 (talk) 16:55, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

@Toddst1: I really find it hard to believe that you don't normally point out stuff like this when you have found such joy freely throwing it out on a complete stranger over the past few days. In any case, obviously I self-identified myself because I'm trying to follow the guidelines set forth by the community that require you do that when there is a COI! So, great work! Glad we're finally on the same page. Now that I've once again had to establish my credibility, can I add content that is all cited, factual and free from bias? I'll go ahead and insert my previous questions since they weren't answered by you as an expert editor of the wiki community.

If all of my information is well-cited as you put it, how is the content off-topic? Aren't all the sources pertaining to Alexandre Mars? Shouldn't his Wiki page be a compilation of all of those sources? How is updating/adding information on what he does now in his life irrelevant? How is adding information on his business irrelevant, assuming the information is analytical and free from opinion (which it was)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jennepicfoundation (talk • contribs) 17:48, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

If you're referring to this edit, most of that information would go in an article about the Epic Foundation not a biography - if it didn't have such a PR tone to it and if the foundation passed WP:CORP. This article is a biography about Mars for an encyclopedia. Toddst1 (talk) 18:11, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

@Toddst1: I've sifted through the information you think would pertain more to an article on the foundation. So now how would all of this information not be a part of his biography?

Alexandre Mars (born c. 1976)[1] is a French-born businessman and philanthropist, known in France as the "The French Bill Gates."[2] He is the founder and CEO of Epic Foundation, a global nonprofit startup working with high impact organizations that help underserved children and youth around the world.[3] He is also the founder and CEO of Blisce/ a family office investing in high-impact tech startups and companies around the world, running on the mission of combining technology and partnerships with change-making leaderships.[4] Prior to Epic Foundation, Mars made a fortune leading two tech startups to profitable exits.[5] He founded the instant messaging technology company Scroon, later acquired by BlackBerry Limited,[6] and was the CEO and founder of the world's largest mobile agency, Phonevalley, sold to Publicis Groupe in 2007.[7] With the money earned from his venture, he bought several computers and started one of Europe's first web agencies, A2X.[10] While working as a venture capitalist in New York, Mars visited his girlfriend, now wife, in India where she was working in an orphanage for disabled children founded by Mother Teresa.[12] It was a memorable experience for both, but left Mars with a desire to change course. Upon selling his sixth startup, Mars began a seven month odyssey to study philanthropy outside of the United States.[10] With his wife and children beside him, Mars traveled around the world for several months trying to understand what could be changed.[9] His research showed that "people want to give, but they do not know who, through lack of confidence and knowledge."[13] Mars has been an outspoken critic about advertising on mobile platforms. He has said existing advertisers do not focus on the technology well, saying they "always go with the easiest answer. Google for sure—less and less AOL."[15] He has criticised data mining from companies such as Facebook, saying the company needs to get additional permission from users in order to individually target them more carefully.[16] Mars has been an advocate for children and youth; he launched Epic Foundation in 2014 with the mission to bridge the gap between individual and corporate donors and organizations supporting kids globally using innovation. The Foundation works in the United States, Western Europe, Brazil, East Africa, Southeast Asia and India.[17] Through the work of his foundation, Mars urges people to use their success to give back.[14] [13] He is described as a "disruptive philanthropist," wanting to change mindsets about how we give our time, money and resources.[14] In December 2016, France's popular radio station Europe 1 awarded Mars the trophy for "Personality of the Future."[18] Alexandre Mars wed his high school sweetheart, Florence Chataignier Mars, who has deeply inspired his work with children.[12] They have three children together and live in Brooklyn, New York [12] Mars is an avid runner and sports fanatic.[14] He is a devoted practitioner of mixed martial arts and has competed in the New York Marathon.[14][8] In 2016, Mars was appointed Chair of the Sport and Society Committee, part of the Paris 2024 Olympic and Paralympic Games bid.[14]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Harrison_(charity_founder) <<<compare all of that information to this page and tell me where my COI has blinded me from seeing the bias undertones you think are splattered on the page.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Jennepicfoundation (talk • contribs) 19:43, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Jennepicfoundation has been banned from editing this article. Toddst1 (talk) 21:09, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

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Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://lafrenchtouchconference.net/en/conferencier/alexandre-mars-2, https://www.linkedin.com/pub/alexandre-mars/0/31/a73, http://citiesphilanthropy.com/en/speakers/ and http://www.nexusyouthsummit.org/2014-nexus-usa-speakers/. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)

For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 15:27, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

(talk) Hi, thanks for your help and your constructive feedback. We actually created all of this content ourselves, that's why it's verbatim across all of the platforms that you mentioned. These sites asked for short bios from Alexandre and we provided it to them. Please remove this copyright infringement notice as it is incorrect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jennepicfoundation (talk • contribs) 21:31, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Yes, Jennepicfoundation, I see that that is quite likely, even if not all the sites that I identified carry the same content. However, we don't go on likelihood when it comes to copyright, we go on the evidence: if a piece of text has been published with a credible claim of copyright ownership, then it can't be copied into Wikipedia without the permission of the copyright owner, which must be sent to OTRS as explained here; if the permission is found to be acceptable then the release of the material is logged and this page tagged accordingly. That's the procedure, and anyone is free to follow it. However, I might as well point out that the chances of a promotional press release actually being used in Wikipedia are really, really infinitesimal – there is, essentially, just no point going through the process for content of that kind.

I've left a long introduction to copyright and how we handle it on your talk page. Please read it with care, and make sure you don't add copyright content to Wikipedia again. I do also realise that the more serious infringements are already old history.

Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 23:13, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Thank you so much for all of the help, Justlettersandnumbers! If I want to reinsert a synopsis of the bio or other content that's been sourced, would you be able to help me in reviewing it and getting it posted? Is there another way I should move forward in adding information to Alexandre Mars's page when it's cited information? (I now realize that some content is not suitable in the eyes of the wiki community for an encyclopedia). Thanks

No, I'm sorry, Jennepicfoundation, I can't help you with posting your text into the article. As I think several other editors have already told you, that is not something that you should be trying to do, and is not something that is at all likely to happen. The page on Alexandre Mars can be freely edited by anyone who does not have a close personal or professional connection to him or his work. You've made it very clear (thank you!) that you do have such a connection. You are strongly discouraged from making any edit to the article page. You are always welcome to request changes here, on this page, the talk-page of the article. That is your only possible way forward here. I'm going to put a pre-packaged message below this, with some extra advice about how to do it. A friendly last word of warning: people in your sort of position need to be careful not to make unreasonable demands on the time and patience of volunteer editors (you can read more here). Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 00:01, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Conflict of interest

At least one major contributor to this article appears to have a close personal or professional connection to the topic, and thus to have a conflict of interest. Conflict-of-interest editors are strongly discouraged from editing the article directly, but are always welcome to propose changes on the talk page (i.e., here). You can attract the attention of other editors by putting {{request edit}} (exactly so, with the curly parentheses) at the beginning of your request, or by clicking the link on the lowest yellow notice above. Requests that are not supported by independent reliable sources are unlikely to be accepted.

Please also note that our Terms of Use state that "you must disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation." An editor who contributes as part of his or her paid employment is required to disclose that fact. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 00:02, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

"Head of mobile"

What exactly is a "head of mobile?" Toddst1 (talk) 21:06, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Means head of the mobile division Toddst1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jennepicfoundation (talk • contribs) 22:52, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

I added that to the article. Thanks, Jenn. --MelanieN (talk) 18:16, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

First section

Can we add that Alexandre Mars is also the Founder & CEO of Epic Foundation in the entry paragraph? Several ways to cite this... epic.foundation would be the most appropriate.

Can we add that Alexandre Mars is also the CEO & Founder of Blisce/? On blisce.com it just says it's an Alexandre Mars holding company, but this website actually states that he is the Founder & CEO of Blisce/. https://www.vbprofiles.com/people/alexandre-mars-548c5e1bac4908dc540079eb

--Jennepicfoundation (talk) 19:58, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

we look for independent sources in WP. Jytdog (talk) 20:09, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Jytdog, okay I see. Can we use the bio on this link to mention his involvement? Or somehow to mention his involvement using the "Alexandre Mars holding company" sentence on the Blisce/ website? --Jennepicfoundation (talk) 20:35, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Hello, I'm coming back to this section to request changes. Can we add that Alexandre is also involved with Blise/ per my sources above? Also, can we add that he's the Founder & CEO of Epic Foundation and give a description saying it's "a nonprofit connecting donors with supporting children and youth?" We can use several sources.. here or here. Could we also add a photo of Alexandre to this page? If you google Alexandre Mars, there are plenty to choose from. Jennepicfoundation (talk) 15:41, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Jennepicfoundation (talk) 18:03, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Why? Toddst1 (talk) 23:52, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Business section

Can we have a section dedicated to his business ventures? I understand this is all included together in the life & career section but can it be separated? He's had 6 startups so it doesn't really make sense to put it all under one section.

Also, right now it says that Phonevalley is a mobile marketing agency, but can we change it to "what was then Europe's largest mobile marketing and communications agency" per this link: http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20070905006612/en/Publicis-Groupe-Strategic-Mobile-Marketing-Move-Acquired

In the same section where Epic Foundation is discussed, can we change it from linking wealthy young entrepreneurs to just donors? Epic Foundation does not cap it's donors to just wealthy young entrepreneurs. It's open to everyone: https://techcrunch.com/2016/04/28/epic-foundation-impact-app/

Can we say that Alexandre is self-funding Epic Foundation? https://epic.foundation/pdf/management-alexandre-mars.pdf

--Jennepicfoundation (talk) 20:30, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Funny you should ask, I just added that he self-funds the foundation. 0;-D We do have an independent source for the information so that is fine. As for the lead sentence, normally that just describes who the person is; I don't believe the Epic Foundation or his various companies would normally be included there. "Wealthy young entrepreneurs" is what most of the independent sources say are his target, and also . I took a look at Blisce earlier to see whether to include it, and I did find an independent source but it just said it is his holding company. I can add it, but "founder and CEO" would be overkill; it is simply the umbrella through which he runs his interests. And no, we can't use the "largest mobile marketing" info; it is from a press release, not independent. --MelanieN (talk) 20:43, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

I did add section headings, and I did add blisce. --MelanieN (talk) 20:54, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

MelanieN Thank you!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jennepicfoundation (talk • contribs) 20:59, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

@Toddst1: Why did you add "as of December 2016" and past tense to his current business operation, as if he had closed it down or you expect it to be closed down any time? That is a very unusual way to handle the current activities of a person and I don't think it is appropriate here. --MelanieN (talk) 00:06, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Because the site was updated in December 2016. December is in the past so past tense is appropriate. No implication of expectations. Toddst1 (talk) 03:29, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

So if I update it to January 2016, I can put it back to "is"? 0;-D This really doesn't make any sense to me. Look at any other article about a person, it will say that he "is" the CEO of ABC Company, or "is" a professor at ABC College, or "is" the mayor of Podunk. None of this "well, he was at the time the article was updated" stuff. The company is his own creation, pretty much a one-man show to run his own activities; I don't think he is going to be fired any time soon. I've written 40 or 50 biographical articles and edited many more; I have never seen something like this done. --MelanieN (talk) 03:40, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

WP:OSE is not a reason to continue the inclusion of future or even current temporal obsolescence. "Currently" is one of the most misleading words you could ever add to an article because it gives no indication of when it is referring to. Readers will assume it is up to date. As far as updating the site, let WP:V be your guiding principle. Perhaps you should spend some time going back to those 40 or 50 articles and updating them with the {{as of}} template. Toddst1 (talk) 03:48, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

So if I delete "currently" and just say "is" that will make it all right? --MelanieN (talk) 03:50, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Are you kidding me? Of course not. When does "is" refer to? Use the {{as of}} template. Toddst1 (talk) 03:52, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

This still makes no sense. I see I can't talk you out of it, but I have never seen this used anywhere else and I don't intend to start messing up perfectly good articles with it. --MelanieN (talk) 03:55, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Look, I'm not trying to be pedatic, but just go back to WP:V. All we know is what the source says. The source was updated in December. In December, he was in that role. That's really all we can say. We have no idea if he's still there (and no reason to assume a change) but going back to WP:V, just say what the source says. Toddst1 (talk) 04:07, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

MelanieN, there seems to be a mistake. The app is called the Impact App, not Access. Please see the link here. --Jennepicfoundation (talk) 16:44, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. I misread it. --MelanieN (talk) 16:53, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, I know this is confusing. But the app is actually called the "Impact App," not just Impact. Also, I found a link for saying phonevalley was one of Europe's largest agencies: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/small-biz/entrepreneurship/how-ny-based-entrepreneur-alexandre-mars-is-swapping-startups-for-charity/articleshow/52968833.cms. Does this work? --Jennepicfoundation (talk) 17:10, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

I fixed "Impact App". As for this reference: Sorry, but I can't accept it. I know this can be confusing, but this does not appear to be an independent reference. The exact same article appears, word for word in dozens of publications, attributed to the same author "afp".[10] This is almost certainly a reprint of a press release that was sent by the subject. This is what we call Churnalism, where a newspaper prints something supplied to it by an outside source but does not identify it as such. I will respond later to your suggestions below. --MelanieN (talk) 17:42, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Ah, okay I see. No worries then! --Jennepicfoundation (talk) 18:38, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

For this section... the article here does give a description of A2X as "one of the first online marketing agencies in France." I remember this was an issue before since there was no reputable source to cite. Can we use the description now?

Can we also add information in this section on how his businesses were always a mean to an end.. for example the same article above says "For him, starting and selling companies was always a means to an end, with the goal to create something philanthropic." Jennepicfoundation (talk) 15:52, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Jennepicfoundation (talk) 18:03, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

I think that would be highly inappropriate. You are really getting to be annoying with your promotion of your boss. I suggest you knock it off.Toddst1 (talk) 23:50, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Early Life

Can we pull where he grew up into a section on its own for "Early Life?" Can we also reinsert where he went to high school and university? As it was before, it said: He attended Florent Schmitt de Saint-Cloud high school, HEC Paris, and Paris Dauphine University.

It would be great if we could bulk up this area, including information about his mother and father. For example, before there was information on his father but no information on his mother. I added information on his mother and cited it, but I think it was taken off. "His parents were French; his father Dominique was an entrepreneur who founded Mars and Co., a consulting company, and his mother was involved in social causes." http://www.canadianbusiness.com/innovation/change-agent/how-alexandre-mars-is-reinventing-philanthropy-for-the-digital-age/

I don't know if the information for A2X, his other company that currently isn't listed, would go here or under business? It says he used the money from his concert venture to buy a bunch of computers and that's what prompted him to start A2X. It's all from the link here.

Can we add information on what prompted his push to start Epic Foundation? Namely a trip to India to visit his wife who worked at Mother Teresa House. Or the trip he took with his wife and children to find out what he could do get into philanthropy. It's from the same link as above.

Also what are the chances that we can add a photo of Alexandre to the page? Thank you for all of your help on this!--Jennepicfoundation (talk) 17:38, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

I don't think we should "bulk up this area." If you want an article on your boss' mommy and daddy, they need to be notable on their own. Their bios do not belong in this article. This is an article about your boss, not his relatives. Toddst1 (talk) 16:56, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

Hi MelanieN! Have you had a chance to review any of these suggestions yet? I would like to hear your thoughts. Thanks!Jennepicfoundation (talk) 22:09, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Jennepicfoundation, you appear not to have read the advice I gave you higher up this page. Please forgive me if I repeat it in a rather more direct way: paid editors need to be careful not to make excessive demands on the time and patience of volunteer editors. To do so may be regarded as disruptive behaviour, and can result in being blocked from editing. Please read WP:PAYTALK, and please take heed of what it says.

Just to be completely clear: helping paid editors insert their promotional content into Wikipedia is about the last thing anyone is interested in doing. For you to pester a valuable editor for attention after only four days since your previous post is less than polite. If you want to propose a change to the article, follow these steps: (1) make sure the change is in accordance with Wikpedia tone and style, and involves no more than one sentence; (2) find a couple of independent reliable sources that support it; (3) use {{request edit}} to ask for the change to be made; and (4) sit back and wait patiently for a response. Since the project is overwhelmed with people in your position, it might be many months before anyone replies. In any case, I suggest that you take a good long break (six months, say?) from this page, starting immediately – I'm afraid that I may not be the only person whose patience is wearing thin. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 23:01, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Hi Justlettersandnumbers, I'm sorry if you were confused by my intentions but that's not what was happening at all. You can refer to the section above. MelanieN and I were in a back-and-forth conversation over the course of an hour or two and she said that she would respond to my suggestion in this section later. I was not pestering her on checking it, solely wondering whether she had or reminding her for perhaps she forgot. If she has a problem with my interaction, then by all means MelanieN tell me and I'll start using the request edit feature. Thanks!Jennepicfoundation (talk) 17:45, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

Hi Jenne. I finally have time to take a look at some of this. You offered two references. The Canadian Business Journal article is not independent; it is Mars himself talking. I don't find anything usable there except "I grew up in Paris" and we already have that. The article in French from GC Magazine is substantially about him and does seem to be independent. It provides a source for "the French Bill Gates". It had a few other details I could use, and I added them to the article. I don't have any source for the rest of the information you want to add; that's why it was removed from the article before. I suspect this is the best we are going to be able to do with this article. As you can see, an article in an international encyclopedia is a different matter from writing up a facebook biography or a web page. You can feel good that he has an article at all. Most people don't.

Sorry about other people hassling you. I do put this kind of request on my radar but it can take me a while to get to it. --MelanieN (talk) 23:02, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

MelanieN, Thank you so much, SERIOUSLY! I know this sounds super corny, but alongside helping me understand content appropriate for Wiki, you've also been very kind and understanding, something I haven't seen much of from the wiki community. Jennepicfoundation (talk) 20:23, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

MelanieN Hi Mel! I hope you're well! Just thought I would revisit some edits on this Wikipedia page... I don't think we were ever able to determine whether we could add where he grew up. It says Paris, but he was actually born in the south of France per this new article here. Per the same article, can we add some information on his parents? Can we also reinsert where he went to high school and university? As it was before, it said: He attended Florent Schmitt de Saint-Cloud high school, HEC Paris, and Paris Dauphine University. Jennepicfoundation (talk) 15:46, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Jennepicfoundation (talk) 18:04, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Jennepicfoundation (talk) 16:11, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Can't you move on? This page is not controlled by Melanie. It sounds like you're placing content in other pubs to support what you want to appear on the wikipedia article. That's considered WP:GAME. Toddst1 (talk) 23:51, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Jenn, in this case I agree with Todd. The source of this material is obviously Mars himself, feeding it to a publication through an interview. In any case, there is no reason why the article has to include where he was born or where he went to school - even though you or someone at your firm has been desperate to add it. I suggest you let it go. --MelanieN (talk) 20:41, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

P.S. This new interview says born in the south of France; a previous interview-based article said born in Paris;[11] given this discrepancy I think I will simply remove where he was born from the article. --MelanieN (talk) 20:46, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Philanthropic activities

There is a new source here to verify the trip was not months, but one year: here.

Also, can we add that he was awarded the Personality of the future from Europe 1? The information is in this link here.

Recently, Alexandre has been involved with the Olympic Paris 2024 bid. I'm not sure whether this would constitute its own section or would go under philanthropic activities since he technically sits on the board and is not paid for his services. It's in the CV section of the article here. He also wrote an editorial for the piece here.

Jennepicfoundation (talk) 18:04, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

How would all that add to the encyclopedic content? Maybe you should try to promote your boss somewhere else. Toddst1 (talk) 23:50, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

I did add the Olympic bid information to the "philanthropy" section. "Personality of the Future" does not sound like a notable award. --MelanieN (talk) 20:53, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Thank you MelanieN!Jennepicfoundation (talk) 19:51, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Requested Content & Sources

Jennepicfoundation Please bring your requests and sources here. Thanks Maineartists (talk) 19:15, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Jennepicfoundation I have reviewed the edit history and the above correspondence between you and WP editors. First, let me sincerely apologize for what I deem to be inexcusable attitude and tone toward you. I am ashamed to be associated with certain members of the WP community who speak or treat users of this site in such a manner. Honestly, you have more right to be here than the one who seems to be dealing with their own conflicting WP:NPOV in separating their personal opinions and feelings toward you and this subject. You have made it clear and known that you are associated and have brought your requests to the Talk Page; which is what WP requires. I will help in any way that I can from a neutral standpoint and also aid in creating a good, well formed article at WP cited with reliable sources that will not be challenged or contested. I will also call out any inappropriate comments that are unproductive and not in keeping with civility guidelines. Best. Maineartists (talk) 21:16, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi, Maineartists! Thank you so much for offering to help. That's kind of where I'm at at this point: trying to understand what is appropriate content for this page and what is not. As you can see from the back-and-forth above, I would assume adding content on Mars's past, i.e. where he grew up, who is parents were, etc. would be an essential part of this article as I've seen it listed in other biographical articles. The information on his parents were actually already on the article one year ago until December when they were taken down, so I'm trying to understand why that is... other than that, really just trying to add information on his current venture, past businesses, etc. and I have the sources to do so.

For example, the article here has a lot of good content since it gives a good overview of his past and present. I'm not quite sure why it doesn't serve as an independent source..? He did not commit to do the BI article I just mentioned only to generate a Wiki source. The piece was done on him and I want to use it as a source since it's a recent article.

Editing this article has nothing to do with what I want on here or not, it's about what I deem should be on here given his notability and given what I have seen on the pages of other notable individuals similar to Alexandre, i.e. Scott Harrison, Ben Rattray, Jeremy Heimans, etc. It's been a struggle trying to understand why the content that's appropriate for another similar individual is not appropriate for this page. Again, I truly appreciate any assistance and guidance you can give me and really look forward to working with you to create a strong page on Alexandre Mars!Jennepicfoundation (talk) 19:51, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Jenn, the main difference with the other articles you mention is the sourcing. The Scott Harrison article, for example, is supported by references from the New York Times, CBS News, and Forbes. Ben Rattray has articles in TIME, Fortune, the Wall Street Journal, and the Washington Post. Those are far stronger than the references we have for Alexandre, which often seem like "churnalism" - stories planted by the person's own representatives and containing only information supplied by the subject rather than secondary sources. The other difference is the article's history. As you know, it was initially very promotional, basically a PR piece for him - and in cleaning out the puffery we also cleaned out anything that did not appear to have reliable secondary sourcing (as opposed to being sourced to Alexandre himself or his public relations person, namely you). Don't get me wrong - he is notable enough to have a page here. And things like his parents or where he went to school seem innocuous, and maybe Maineartists will accept the sourcing you have for them. However, Maineartists should be aware of the backstory here and why we have been cautious in accepting your COI suggestions. --MelanieN (talk) 22:38, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Maineartists and MelanieN! I hope you're both well! I recently came across Liv Boeree's page that had a speaker section with sources as a Web Summit video. I have similar videos from websites on Alexandre's speaking activities. Could I add those in there?

Some of the sources that her page has are ones that we have as well. For example, can we add some information from this article? It has information on his mother and wife. It also has information on what led Alexandre to launch Epic- "When I visited her in Delhi, I saw firsthand what effect poverty and inequality can have on children. This experience was profound and this is also why I chose to focus on children and youth when I founded Epic.... In 2010, when we moved back to NYC, I already knew my 6th startup would be a nonprofit."

I'm trying to understand how information on ALEXANDRE taking a trip which led HIM to launch a company shouldn't be in HIS wikipedia page. This is something another user removed saying it should be in an page on the foundation. I'm confused. It's about his personal journey so shouldn't be in his wiki article?

Can we use this article to discuss how much he funds Epic? I know there's a part that says he funds it himself 100% but to add up to how much..?

I know we couldn't use crunchbase as a source in the past. Can we use this or thisarticle for stating he invests in companies such as spotify, pinterest, blablacar?

Can we use this article in support of a section for activism? "Alexandre Mars, founder and CEO of Epic Foundation, stressed the need to mobilise people to give to refugees, and said technology could play a key role in this. “Governments cannot do the task alone, they need the involvement of all to address these issues,” he added."

Same for this article where he urges millennials to push others to contribute: “The millennial generation is pushing their parents and the corporate world to do more"

Can we use this article which gives a good bio for at what age he started which venture. If activism section is approved, we could add something for his mission to have philanthropy and technology coalesce?

I thank you all for your insight and help in advance! Jennepicfoundation (talk) 16:52, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps you could explain how and why these proposed additions enhance an encyclopedic biography instead of re-creating a PR puff piece?

You want to "add something for his mission to have philanthropy and technology coalesce?" The only evidence of him being on a mission comes from him and his PR mavens. How is this in any way encyclopedic?

These long and repetitive discussions with you are now beyond old. You already have a fairly strong sanction in place related to this article, and I feel that you need to be reminded that editors who refuse to accept a consensus by arguing ad nauseam may find themselves in violation of the disruptive-editing guideline. It's clear that you are WP:NOTHERE to do anything besides promote your boss. Toddst1 (talk) 05:02, 20 April 2017 (UTC)