Jonesey95

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very curious

what you might make of the mess at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Anthropology/Oral_tradition_taskforce - there have been attempts to get it up and running but inadequate tweaking so far...

cheers JarrahTree 14:56, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

I fixed a bunch of formatting errors. Good luck! – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:38, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for that JarrahTree 01:03, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

WikiProject Numbers tabs template

Is it accepted practice to put wikiproject templates in wikiproject pages / subpages as opposed to template space? I had no objection to your move but someone has reverted you, and broken the documentation in the process. It would be nice to read any guidelines on wikiproject templates etc. Thanks Polyamorph (talk) 17:52, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Transcluded pages that are used only by one project typically live in project space. The "template" does not take any parameters, so it's really just a shared header for the WikiProject. There is no point in having it in template space. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes, thanks for explaining. I'll move it back. Polyamorph (talk) 06:22, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Module:WikiProject banner

This is really poor form on a module with 11 million transclusions. Make your edits to the sandbox please, test them properly, and then we can deploy with a more substantive edit. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:13, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

I contemplated teasing apart the nest of transclusions, but with such a small change, I was pretty confident that it would be OK and that I could revert any problems easily. Did I break anything? – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:54, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Well for a start it took you three edits to make one minor change. Secondly, if you do not make the same change to the sandbox then it will likely end up getting reverted when the next sync happens! Lastly, Gonnym has suggested that styles should be put into the stylesheet rather than hard-coding, so perhaps look into that? Not sure what you mean by nest of transclusions — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:24, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

August blitz bling

		The Working Wikipedian's Barnstar
		This barnstar is awarded to Jonesey95 for copy edits totaling over 4,000 words (including rollover words) during the GOCE August 2024 Copy Editing Blitz. Congratulations, and thank you for your contributions! Miniapolis 13:29, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Standings table documentation

Hi Jonesey. Regarding this revert, trust me, you're preaching to the choir. I agree templates need documentation. It's a constant challenge for me when trying categorize some of these templates when there is no description or even a hint of what their purpose is for. The only reason I removed the no doc tag in this case is because I noticed the author removing all the code at the bottom and I thought maybe it was the no doc tag they were objecting to, perhaps rationalizing that the purpose of a standings template is obvious. It was a 'choose your battle' move on my part. Sacrificing the doc tag for keeping the category so I didn't have watchlist the page and get into a conflict over something that was low priority in my view.

I would like to add documentation myself, and I have on a few occasions, but sometimes it's a mystery to me, like in this case. I don't remember ever seeing a sports table standings template that has documentation. Couldn't find an example just now, nor when I searched for one the other day. Could you link to an example? Ideally, in this particular case, what would it look like if it had it? I'm guessing the {{2024-25 Thai League 2 table}} usage syntax, maybe a See also section if applicable, the category, and anything else? --DB1729^talk 02:02, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Templates require documentation. It's not my job to provide it, but if a template's creator (not you) disruptively removes valid tags that point out the lack of documentation instead of adding the documentation, I'm going to re-add those tags in the hope that the creator will document the template's proper usage and scope. I think that particular template is of dubious value. First, the template contains article content, which is contrary to our guidelines. Second, Wikipedia is not a live-updated sports database; a final standings table can be added to relevant articles after the season is over, using section transclusion. That said, I don't want to get into a whole TFD kerfuffle over something that some editors see as being appropriate, so I just tag it and move on. Thanks for adding a category; they are not my forte, and you do a great job with them. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:19, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Predictable

So yeah. Polygnotus (talk) 14:54, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Template:Railway-routemap note

I was thinking that this might be clearer and simpler text:

Useddenim (talk) 20:26, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the proposal, but IMO it is not better. Using "WP:NENAT" in what is supposed to be readable prose strikes me as less clear, not more. And I'd rather not link to the unsupported Rail routemap templates for example don't have to be deleted and result in substitution since they show the route map for certain railway lines. Substitution will be counterproductive as in order to update the route or fix an error would be harder on article space than on template space. It strikes me as a tautology and poorly justified. And the page is an essay, which many editors will look askance at. A consensus discussion is stronger. Anyway, proposed changes to that template page's content should be discussed on its talk page, not here. – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:45, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Then what about a shorter Note: Per consensus and convention most route diagrams are single-use templates. Please see this discussion for more information.? Useddenim (talk) 23:24, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Again, I think that is less clear than the note that is there, and it uses different language from the rest of the template. I have incorporated a couple of ideas from your proposal to make the note more concise, though. Any further discussion should happen at Template talk:Railway-routemap. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:21, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Wikidata #643 Wikilink errors

I suspect I know the answer, but do you know of a better way to address the Wikilink errors from this week's Wikidata Newsletter than the following? It's using a nonexistant (on en) template "LangSwitch" as the link title, intended to display the link text in either French or English depending on user's settings. The quick and dirty way to fix it would be to remove the template phrase, keep the English title and remove the French, but I wondered if there's a template similar and does the intended cleanly. Zinnober9 (talk) 16:19, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

I removed the French text, because this is the English Wikipedia. I also asked the sender to fix the messages. They should have received a warning message from the mass message tool, per T358818. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:22, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

We are in agreement then. It's the second Wikidata newsletter in the past month to have a Wikilink error. #641 from two weeks ago had something simpler, so I fixed those real quick thinking it was a one off, but don't really want to do it again. Thanks for notifying them. Zinnober9 (talk) 18:11, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Tech News: 2024-36

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MediaWiki message delivery 01:03, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Can you believe there are still more?

How are there still templates like Template:List of Egyptian hieroglyphs/testcases? Gonnym (talk) 12:28, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

There will always be more. Hmm, we should be able to have a report that catches those: template subpages without a parent page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:30, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I found Template:Periodic table (discovery periods)/sandbox with a query. There are 15,000 parentless template pages. I will dig more. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:42, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I used https://quarry.wmcloud.org/query/86076 and some find+replace removals to create this table of 1,200 suspects. I am guessing based on scrolling through that fewer than 100 will be actionable. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:16, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Ah, I wasn't talking about the parentless, I was referring to our friend, that still has templates being deleted. Gonnym (talk) 15:28, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I know, but that led me down a rabbit hole. The one I found above with a query was created by our friend. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:30, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Ha! Amazing! I've looked at the list, I think a sizeable chunk can be fixed by moving the templates either per MOS:SLASH (and use "and" instead) or by matching the article is is used on (like some of the railway lines). I'll take a stab at more this week and see how many can be cleared. Gonnym (talk) 16:08, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I thought about that for some of them, but watch out for names that are reported with slashes in reliable sources or in their article names or leads. I'm looking at Template:Country data Campbell Island / Motu Ihupuku (click to the article) and Template:P.A.Th.E./P.. Be careful out there. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:41, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I go by what the community deemed the main title. In this case, it is Campbell Island, New Zealand and not Campbell Island / Motu Ihupuku. Templates and categories are always secondary and should follow. Gonnym (talk) 17:37, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Metal–organic frameworks/doc

Template:Metal–organic frameworks/doc has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Gonnym (talk) 12:30, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Special:WantedTemplates

I noticed a bunch of new "transclusions of non-existing templates" pop-up pointing to User:Jonesey95/AutoEd/pmc.js. Would it be possible for you to add

// <nowiki>

at the top of that page, and

// </nowiki>

at the bottom of the page? This will prevent the backend software from thinking that the page is transcluding templates that don't exist here like Template:Tree chart\/start)\. Since the <nowiki>...</nowiki> is inside of javascript comments, it won't impact the functionality of the script. Thanks! Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 15:32, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Done. That sure is a goofy layer cake of bugs that surfaced this issue. The page hasn't been edited since 28 July, and no report should see calls to templates on a .js page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:45, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Category:Expired editnotices

Any thoughts on the edit notices at Category:Expired editnotices? Gonnym (talk) 08:46, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't know anything about edit notices, let alone enough to know why this category exists. It does not appear to be explained on the category page or on the linked page (I searched for the string "expir" on the linked page). Maybe Redrose64, who created the category and is usually knowledgeable and helpful, knows what the category is for. – Jonesey95 (talk) 11:40, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Ooof, I did, didn't I. A few days earlier, I had created a heap of editnotices in connection with the 2014 FIFA World Cup, which was ongoing. The request for these was on a talk page which has itself been deleted (if you're an admin, see Special:Undelete/Template talk:Editnotices/Page/2014 FIFA World Cup). Here is a portion of the original request:

... this [editnotice] template has been requested at Talk:2014 FIFA World Cup (link to section) and the visual of the template (and its inclusion) has been discussed and approved at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football (link to section).

There is also consensus at Talk:2014 FIFA World Cup (link to section) to include on the subarticles ...

The request was raised by Qed237 (talk · contribs) at 12:26, 11 June 2014 (UTC).

All of these editnotices have since been deleted; but as an example, 2014 FIFA World Cup Group A had an editnotice that consisted of the code {{Livescores editnotice‎|expiry=22:00, 23 June 2014}}. You can check the docs for the |expiry= parameter at Template:Editnotice.

Three or so months later, discussions came up (now archived at Wikipedia talk:Editnotice/Archive 6#Category:Expired editnotice and Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 114#Category:Expired editnotice), soon after which the category Category:Expired editnotice was moved to its present title.

(TL,DR) Anyway, edit notices are normally built around {{editnotice}}, which has a parameter |expiry=. If this is set to a valid date, and that date is in the past, the edit notice is put in Category:Expired editnotices. It's mainly for things like ongoing events like sports competitions, where we may wish to discourage real-time updates until the event concludes. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 17:53, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

@Redrose64 and when they appear in that category, are they used again or can I send them to TfD? Gonnym (talk) 18:03, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

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• Starting this week, the standard syntax highlighter will receive new colors that make them compatible in dark mode. This is the first of many changes to come as part of a major upgrade to syntax highlighting. You can learn more about what's to come on the help page. [4][5]
• Editors of wikis using Wikidata will now be notified of only relevant Wikidata changes in their watchlist. This is because the Lua functions entity:getSitelink() and mw.wikibase.getSitelink(qid) will have their logic unified for tracking different aspects of sitelinks to reduce junk notifications from inconsistent sitelinks tracking. [6]

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• Users of all Wikis will have access to Wikimedia sites as read-only for a few minutes on September 25, starting at 15:00 UTC. This is a planned datacenter switchover for maintenance purposes. More information will be published in Tech News and will also be posted on individual wikis in the coming weeks. [7]
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MediaWiki message delivery 18:49, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Guild of Copy Editors September Newsletter

Guild of Copy Editors September Newsletter Hello and welcome to the September newsletter, a quarterly digest of Guild activities since June. Don't forget you can unsubscribe at any time; see below. Election news: Project coordinators play an important role in our WikiProject. Following the mid-year Election of Coordinators, we welcomed Mox Eden to the coordinator team. Dhtwiki remains as Lead Coordinator, and Miniapolis and Wracking returned as assistant coordinators. If you'd like to help out behind the scenes, please consider taking part in our December election – watchlist our ombox for updates. Information about the role of coordinators can be found here. Blitz: 13 of the 24 editors who signed up for the June 2024 Copy Editing Blitz copy edited at least one article. Between them, they copy edited 169,404 words comprising 41 articles. Barnstars awarded are here. Drive: 38 of the 59 editors who signed up for the July 2024 Backlog Elimination Drive copy edited at least one article. Between them, they copy edited 482,133 words comprising 293 articles. Barnstars awarded are here. Blitz: 10 of the 15 editors who signed up for the August 2024 Copy Editing Blitz copy edited at least one article. Between them, they copy edited 71,294 words comprising 31 articles. Barnstars awarded are here. Drive: Sign up here to earn barnstars in our month-long, in-progress September Backlog Elimination Drive. Progress report: As of 05:14, 11 September 2024 (UTC), GOCE copyeditors have processed 233 requests since 1 January, and the backlog of tagged articles stands at 2,824 articles. Thank you all again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve what we do without you! Cheers from Baffle gab1978 and your GOCE coordinators Dhtwiki, Miniapolis, Mox Eden and Wracking. To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list.

Message sent by Baffle gab1978 (talk) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:53, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing {{Infobox road}}

Thanks for fixing Module:Infobox road/route. I was doing <p> errors and was able to track the last remaining group down to that module as well, but couldn't fix it myself due to not having template editor rights. So I left a message on the template talk page and was planning to get back to it eventually -- and I just saw you've relieved me of that self-imposed responsibility. :) Gamapamani (talk) 10:03, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

You're welcome. I don't remember seeing your posting, but maybe I did. It is possible that someone else made a similar post elsewhere that caused me to fix that subpage. – Jonesey95 (talk) 12:00, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

John Roderick

I saw you reverted my change to the American podcasters category for John Roderick (musician) and just wanted to say-- my bad. I've been doing a large-scale diffusion of that category and didn't realized I had already tried to diffuse Roderick. I was working off of a quote from Ken Jennings describing the podcast as advice to his past self, but after reviewing the podcast description, I agree with your reversion. Just wanted to provide the update.

Vegantics (talk) 15:00, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I was wondering how you got "advice podcaster" for this person, since the word "advice" does not appear in the article. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:36, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

DavisCup box

Hey Jonesey, thanks for reaching out to me.
I am trying to do a bit of work in the tennis sphere and I have a couple of different things that I would like to try. The first template is really a modification of an existing template. In this template: Template:DavisCupbox, I was wondering if you knew a way to make this collapsible so that only the heading would be displayed - that is the teams, scores, venue, date and surface were all showing and then the information of the matches were hidden. Secondary to that if there was a function to then display a result (ie. win or loss) with potentially a different background colour (e.g. colour appropriate green or red) would also be possible. This is all so that I can create teams results pages in a way that looks appealing. I have tried lots of different formats (e.g. on my sandbox User:Eccy89/sandbox2#Australia Davis Cup results again but they don't quite look as good as this original template. There were a few attempts that I was also not sure would pass MOS:ACCESSIBILITY with sizing issues as well. This is mainly as I want to overhaul the page I created List of Australia Davis Cup team results so that it can display the information of the individual matches. With a good base/created templates then I can go onto create similar pages for other nations. I hope this makes sense. There is a second template that I would be interested in trying to create but I think trying to figure this one out first would be nice.
Thanks again for reaching out. Much appreciated. Eccy89 (talk) 10:31, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

I made some adjustments to the template and created {{DavisCupbox/testcases}}. If you fill in the testcases page with parameters and values, and more than one type of outcome for a set of matches, I can take a look at your other requests. FWIW, we often show the winner's score in bold, but I can't recall seeing the use of background colors for the same thing. It is discouraged by MOS, I believe. – Jonesey95 (talk) 12:07, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

In terms of colours, I guess I mean like something akin to 2016–17 Sydney FC season#Matches and can be found in hundreds of football team seasons pages, though I am not sure if there was an issue with MOS raised well after all these were created.

The other template I was looking into doing was one for the current team e.g. Australia Davis Cup team#Current squad. Something with a header template e.g. titled something like "template:DCT team header" with the column headers from that article. Then have a second template where you input values for:

• DCT player

|name=

|dob=

|singlesrank=

|doublesrank=

|debut=

|ties=

|singlesH2H=

|doublesH2H=

|overallH2H=

|DCprofile= (In the example I have given you the reference is ATP profile, however I found a Davis Cup profile which I think is better, e.g. https://www.daviscup.com/en/players/player.aspx?id=800158756 )

with the ability to have up to five player inputs. Eccy89 (talk) 13:55, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks so much for the Davis Cup template edit. That's exactly what I was thinking of.

It seems like with the addition of the [show/hide] it has put team1's flag of centre. Would that render properly and is just off in this test case or does it need more tinkering? Eccy89 (talk) 13:58, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Oooooo, also just looking at 2003 Davis Cup#Final - would there be a way to create a default show/hide option - i think in pages like this it would be nice to have the Final default=show, but in the national team result pages have it default hide as many many matches would be too cumbersome to have shown (hence the asking for help creating the show/hide originally). :-) Eccy89 (talk) 14:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

sorry to be asking so much of you but I've just realised since the change in format (2019), there was a new template created for the ties: Template:Davis Cup Finals box (as it's only three matches instead of five) - would it be possible to add the show/hide feature on this one too? Eccy89 (talk) 14:13, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

One template at a time, please. If you want help, please fill in the templates at {{DavisCupbox/testcases}} with appropriate parameters so that we can see what the template looks like when it is filled in. I have added green and red colors for |result=W and |result=L, following the footballbox model. I also added a |collapsed= parameter that will collapse the template when it has any value; that behavior can be adjusted. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:20, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Hey Jonesey, I am sorry about second request - it seemed like your changes went live as they had been updated on all pages as far as I could tell. I didn't realised we were still testing it out. I am afraid to say I don't really know how templates work at all so when you say "fill in the templates" I don't quite understand what you mean. I have gone in to results and collapsed sections and filled it in for a match between Denmark and Italy (it this what you meant?) Regarding the collapsed parameter, that seems to be working as intended and the colours too – though the standard tennis colours that appear to be used for W/L are   Win (#98fb98) and   Loss (#ffa07a). I'm over in Australia so I must really be getting to sleep. Again thanks for all your help, it has already been invaluable. — Eccy89 (talk) 15:44, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

When you first posted here, I thought that the template was something you were creating and that wasn't being used, because it had no sandbox or testcases page. I sloppily made changes to a live template being used in 500 articles. That was my mistake. I have removed the slightly broken collapsing code from the live template for now; it is still in {{DavisCupbox/sandbox}}. I don't know why the "[hide]" link is showing next to the left-hand flag instead of at the far right side of the template, but I'll experiment with it. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:42, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

ahhhh, OK. I see where the confusion has come from. Yep, no worries. I think reverting it back was a good idea :-) — Eccy89 (talk) 22:33, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

@Jonesey95: Mate!!! Thanks for all your help and guidance through this process. It has allowed me to try create a new template myself. I had realised that for results we are going to need a "Round info" indicator which isn't present in the original (live) template. I also thought that we could condense it down to two lines instead of three by moving the score into the adjacent column. I have come up with this: User:Eccy89/Template:DavisCupbox result, the testcase is here: User:Eccy89/Template:DavisCupbox result/testcases -- this template is close to how I think it should look. If you have any time left to devote to this project, we just need to make a collapsible option and if you can help figure out a way to create more space between the score and information in the centre it will perfect. (And then I guess some advice around making this live so other users can follow how to use the template - something to do with the /doc I guess. I think I could figure it out by looking at the other template) — Eccy89 (talk) 10:10, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Ivan Prokhanov

Nothing wrong with your edit to Ivan Prokhanov, but I believe I left it in working condition, so I don't understand your comment "the bot will just come back if you leave it broken", as I don't believe I left it broken. —Anomalocaris (talk) 20:45, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Nothing technically wrong with your edit either. "Broken" was probably an overstatement, or the bot's skewed point of view. I don't know what is going on, really. I couldn't figure out why IABot turned

[https://webcitation.org/70nWxCkCf?url=http://pharisai.at.ua/smuta/smuta5.htm Archive]:

into

[https://w {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20190422030405/https://baptist.org.ru/news/main/view/article/1502498 |date=22 April 2019 }}ebcitation.org/70nWxCkCf?url=http://pharisai.at.ua/smuta/smuta5.htm Archive]:

but I have found that if I leave linked URLs lying around without corresponding archives, the bot will come by and mess them up again. I have reported link-in-link bugs to the bot's owner, but they are relatively rare and I don't think the owner wants to spend time on this edge case. I can't really blame them. – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:26, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

My creation of unused language templates

The reason I've been creating unused language templates like {{lang-oav}} lately is because it's nice to have certain language templates around, even if they end up being unused, and because I didn't think there was anything wrong with creating them. PK2 (talk; contributions) 10:54, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the edit on Template:Infobox_joke/doc

Hey there! Thanks for tacking on TD Header + template for Template:Infobox joke. I was chipping away at adding info to the docs and just used the stock "Edit Template Data" option to create the skeleton.

Your edit note about not being sure why copy/pasting wasn't used on an example caught my eye. I was looking around at WP:TDATA and WP:DOC for an example and didn't see any immediately suggested additions like this or something like Template:Format_TemplateData.

What sort of base example do you typically use as the starting point for carving out initial docs?

Thanks again for adding that in!

Cheers,

Pedantical (talk) 15:51, 21 September 2024 (UTC) Pedantical (talk) 15:51, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

I feel like somewhere I saw a standard setup for that section, including a "TemplateData" section header and the {{templatedata header}} template that links to the monthly report. Maybe I just copied and pasted from other template /doc pages, though. I have added them to the example at Wikipedia:TemplateData. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:33, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Template question

Since you deal with templates on a semi-regular basis, I'd like to run this question by you and see if you have a simple and clean solution. WOSlinker and I were discussing last month two templates on Wikivoyage that were causing lint. We fixed the infobox one, but the other (now ~50 pages with missing/stripped issues) we haven't determined a preventative solution for, and I wondered if you had any ideas.

The quick summary of the issue is the See/Do/Buy/Drink/Sleep/etc templates (that are all written similarly) all report a missing and stripped bdi error when the content field contains manual line breaks. While these affected pages could be fixed by replacing the manual line breaks with break tags for the multiline text on each page, I feel that's the quick and dirty fix for the current pages rather than a preventative solution for a field that is ripe for a couple of lines of text with with a line break. Is that your read on the templates' Content parameter usage too, and is this something that changing the Content parameter's data type would solve, or is there some other simple and clean solution that we haven't thought of yet? Open to suggestions.

Thanks, Zinnober9 (talk) 18:43, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

voy:Template:Listing encloses everything in a <bdi class="vcard">...</bdi> but the content model for the bdi element is phrasing content - it cannot enclose block elements. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:12, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Sometimes there are ways around this limitation, for example using style="display:block;", but any sort of fiddling like that breaks the display of the template. It looks like the <bdi>...</bdi> tags are useful, so the only thing I can think to do is to work around the limitation in the individual pages where this inline tag is used to surround block content. In template transclusions here on en.WP, I typically use <br> tags to put all of the content on a single line. There are probably other ways to in-line block content.

If this is happening only in the |content= parameter, you could introduce a |content-block=yes option into the template and then replace the bdi tags with div tags or just omit them. I experimented with that a bit but did not come up with anything brilliant that fixes everything. One big problem is when the content starts on a regular line (no indents) and then ends on a * or ** line, or vice versa; that can cause misnested tag errors, as I'm sure you have seen. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:17, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

"Content" has been the only parameter I've seen regularly with the issue. Other than a one-off here or there that was cleared with break tags, all other parameters have been real short, single line entries. |content-block=yes sounds interesting. I take it that is incompatible with bdi, but works with div? The majority of the remaining current cases are mainly ones with * or : so that might be an issue.

The other two issues I haven't figured out are the stripped span issue on voy:Template talk:Divesitelisting (the bulletting with span vcard is the culprit. Swapping it to div doesn't fix, so not sure how to keep the intended look and clear error), and the wikilink error on voy:User:Alachuckthebuck/usercontrib. He's trying to substitute in userboxes from here that don't all exist equally there, and using templates that also don't exist there. Is that link error fixable without completely rehauling/fixing the red templates?

Otherwise, Voyage has been rather simple to delint. I wandered over there for a little bit after you and I finished off the Bogus Image parameters since they had some sections that were small and clearable, and have ended up taking them from ~30k errors down to the current 2090. Hoping for zero, but I'm not going to be disappointed if it ends at under 100 with only the bdi issue. Zinnober9 (talk) 16:45, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Small tags in infoboxes & templates redux

Following on from this conversation I had with you at the beginning of the year, is MOS:SMALLFONT's font size restriction mandatory, or are there times when it can be ignored? Several of my edits removing small tags from infoboxes where the font size is less than 85% of the page default have been reverted, like this one and this one. I can see restoring my edits could start an edit war. —Bruce1ee^talk 07:44, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Accessibility is a core policy of Wikipedia. If you get reverted and think the revert was wrong, as SapCal9719 was in that first edit (made without an edit summary, I note), you're supposed to discuss the revert with the reverting editor. I have found that once I explain this admittedly technical and difficult-to-perceive problem, most editors understand. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:52, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Coincidentally, I just got a "Thanks" notification for this four-year-old edit. I remove inappropriate small tags quite frequently (but not always, since I am usually editing for some other purpose), and I almost never get reverted. Most people get it. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:10, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll discuss this with the reverting editor before reinstating my original edit. —Bruce1ee^talk 15:41, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Linter errors in succession boxes

Hi, I see that you have made several edits like this. In such cases, it's not the closing ''' markup that was missing, but the opening markup: it was broken way back in 2006 with this edit. The cell data (after the "Succeeded by") is already bolded, so the year range ends up being double-bolded, which looks bad. Some browsers will silently alter double-bold to normal bold, but Firefox doesn't. Also, applying bold to the year range and not the peerson's name is undesirable, so the correct fix was to remove the unbalanced bold markup. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 07:52, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

After my edit, the code looked like this:

{| class="wikitable succession-box noprint" style="margin:0.5em auto; font-size:small;clear:both;"

|- style="text-align: center;"
|- style="text-align:center;"
|style="width:30%;" rowspan="1"|Preceded&nbsp;by<div style="font-weight: bold">[[John Aspinall (engineer)|John Aspinall]]</div>
| style="width: 40%; text-align: center;" rowspan="1"|''' [[Chief Mechanical Engineer]] of the [[Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway]] '''<br />1899–1904        
| style="width: 30%; text-align: center;" rowspan="1"|  Succeeded&nbsp;by<div style="font-weight: bold">[[George Hughes (engineer)|George Hughes]]'''<br>1904–1922'''</div>
|-
|}

I see that there is bold markup inside a "div bold" tag. The rendered text manages to look fine in my browser, but I see what you're getting at. Different parameters exhibit different behavior in these succession box templates, and I do not see any documentation explaining which parameters accept and do not accept bold markup and line breaks. Bold markup is applied to |title= using ' characters and to |after= using div tags. Even within {{s-aft}}, div tags are used for |after=, but ' characters are used for |as=. It is a maddening, nonsensical mess, AFAICT.

I have ended up fiddling with the markup until the display looks right (in my browser) and there are no more Linter errors. Anything further from me would require making the templates behave in a sane way, or at least be documented reasonably. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:53, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Another reason why succession box style of templates is horrible and should have been converted long ago to one of the more modern systems we have. Gonnym (talk) 16:39, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Leaving my thanks!

You fixed up some of the formatting on my user page and I would like to let you know I appreciate it a lot, thank you very much for the cleanup! MonotoneSandwich (talk) 11:12, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

MonotoneSandwich, you're welcome. I love the sandwich photo. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:11, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! I took it myself and accidentally ran it through a greyscale filter, and well, here I am. MonotoneSandwich (talk) 14:47, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Waypoint Entertainment

Hi Jonesey95, I see that you added a tag to Draft:Waypoint_Entertainment. I've disclosed my COI on my userpage and I'm happy to hear feedback if you see anything in the draft that isn't neutral. I'd appreciate the discussion and having the tag removed.

Thank you, Fluffybunny789 (talk) 16:17, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

The required disclosure had not been posted at Draft talk:Waypoint Entertainment. I have done so for you. Please review Wikipedia:Conflict of interest for other instructions, some of which you have followed. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:25, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, I will be sure to learn more about the COI process. Now that you've added the proper disclosure, will you please remove the tag? I appreciate your help.

Thank you, Fluffybunny789 (talk) 15:55, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

I will let the AFC reviewer do that as part of getting the page ready for moving to article space. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:13, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

null edits

Do you happen to remember which editor was able to null edit pages with their bot a while back? Gonnym (talk) 23:34, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

I can do that.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 00:07, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

User:Joe's Null Bot used to be active a long time ago. I don't know if it's still active, and I don't know how you would tell. I love that the bot has zero Contributions. I can null-edit up to 1000 pages or so on request without any trouble. – Jonesey95 (talk) 02:48, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Don't think it was Joe's bot. It was someone doing a huge backlog of updating links or something of that sorts. @Trappist the monk if you can, Module:Language/data/iana languages, Module:Language/data/iana regions, Module:Language/data/iana scripts, Module:Language/data/iana suppressed scripts, and Module:Language/data/iana variants are all still showing transclusions so those articles need null edits. If it's also possible, Module:WikiProject banner transclusions also need so the tracking categories can finish populating and bot that fixes the issues can finally complete its task. Gonnym (talk) 08:33, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Joe's Null Bot has been down for years, see these edits. There are several threads on the matter in the VPT archives. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:07, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

User:Wbm1058 is also operating a bot to null-edit all stale pages in order to work around the WMF's inability to keep pages refreshed in a reasonable time frame. See the links from my Tools page. It looks like the most stale page as of a week ago was from 27 May 2024, so about four months. If you're willing to wait another four months, the bot will catch up and null-edit all of the pages you care about, most likely. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:12, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Before the recent database "normalization", my goal was to keep mainspace refreshed within about 32 days, and other namespaces within about 80 days. The Quarry database replag during that normalization process prevented my bot from refreshing links for over week, and after the replag was finally eliminated, my bots finally were refreshing links again, but their performance has been limited ever since. They are not able to refresh links at the same pace, so the length of time between refreshes is growing, and I don't know how long it will get before it stabilizes. Of course, if you have specific links you want to refresh, those can still be targeted to be done sooner. – wbm1058 (talk) 19:32, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your dedication. Until we can persuade staff to care about this problem adequately, you're the best we've got. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:39, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Gonnym, the iana module transclusions have been null edited. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:08, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Nice, thanks! Gonnym (talk) 18:58, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Linter syntax issues

To answer the question in your recent edit summary, the article Golzar Shohada of Qom was translated from Persian Wikipedia, so the error probably came from there. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 13:20, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I am seeing a few errors show up at en.WP this way. I suppose there is little to be done about it. I remain paranoid that there are helpful but obsolete examples somewhere on en.WP that people are copying, so I will probably keep using this edit summary. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:23, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

September 2024 GOCE drive award

		The Working Wikipedian's Barnstar
		This barnstar is awarded to Jonesey95 for copy edits totaling over 8,000 words (including bonus and rollover words) during the GOCE September 2024 Backlog Elimination Drive. Congratulations, and thank you for your contributions! Dhtwiki (talk) 08:49, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

Excessive pings

I've muted you. Don't bother pinging me again; I won't see it. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 19:55, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

Message acknowledged. I pinged you in my edit summaries because you missed a template deletion step. I performed the removal of template transclusions for you. See also the deletion guidelines, which point to the former link. I find it helpful when people remind me of instructions that I might have missed. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:56, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

Editing sandboxes

You edited User:Spideog/sandbox/stamps, as did I. The owner reverted, so I explained, and in the ensuing conversation I let the owner know that pages with lint errors attract lint fixers. Perhaps this time the owner will allow the fix to stand. —Anomalocaris (talk) 19:59, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

I recommend a more verbose, reader-friendly edit summary, using (more or less) complete sentences with good punctuation, especially in user space. I resisted changing mine for a long time, but I have found that including "I hope you don't mind this minor cleanup edit in your user space" results in a lot more thanks notifications and fewer reverts. If someone reverts, I typically leave it alone without response, knowing that another gnome will come by eventually. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:06, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Delinting

I've made a few sample delinting efforts. I'd appreciate a quick check to see if should continue. I haven't fixed everything i find, as I understand some bots are active to fix more common problems? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:46, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for asking. I looked at all of your delinting edits since September, and I have some constructive feedback.

• All of the edits appeared to be valid, at least by my visual inspection. I did not click Edit and run LintHint to see if your edits caused new errors.
• I strongly recommend a more informative edit summary. I get much better reactions from editors when I use informative edit summaries: more thanks, fewer reverts. Specifically:

• Link to Special:LintErrors.
• When you edit in User space, write "I hope you don't mind this minor cleanup edit in your user space."
• When you leave behind some Linter errors, write "More needed". (Use LintHint to know if you are doing so.)

• Install LintHint. Let me know if you need help. Use it while editing to figure out if there are Linter errors left. It is very reliable, but not 100%. This edit, for example, left behind a very easy to replace <strike>...</strike> tag, after which the page would have been error-free. It's best to minimize the number of Lint-fixing visits to a page if possible, to avoid annoying editors who are watching those pages.
• Activate the syntax highlighter gadget. Make sure to tell it to ignore unclosed br tags.
• Try to preserve the page's appearance, unless the page is truly broken by the Linter errors (e.g. this edit, before which all text was smaller after a misnested tag).

There are a couple of bots that have fixed Linter errors, especially in user signatures, in the past. There are not any high-volume bots running right now, but one is in the approval process. I recommend focusing on errors that bots would not be able to fix, like missing end tags, especially in article space. Please let me know if you have any questions. (Sorry to Redrose and other page watchers for the messed-up numbered list syntax above; it's late at night for me and I can't be bothered to fix it right now.) – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:07, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

All common sense, With the exception of the edit summaries, I was already doing most of what you suggest, Generally when I delint, I try to make the smallest change possible that resolves the Lint-errors. Generally I try to avoid User/User talk, as other contributors were handling those namespaces. My approach to partition the task has typically been to focus on a specfic tag ( and ideally I'd like to concentrate on trying to resolve 'structural' tags if I can ( such as SPAN/DIV/TABLE over more cosmetic repairs, which some Wikipedia contributors consider a waste of time.) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:47, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for The Swarm (roller coaster)

The Swarm (roller coaster) has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Suntooooth, it/he (talk/contribs) 11:27, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Tech News: 2024-41

[trimmed by Jonesey95]

Updates for technical contributors

• It is now possible for <syntaxhighlight> code blocks to offer readers a "Copy" button if the copy=1 attribute is set on the tag. Thanks to SD0001 for these improvements. [9]

[trimmed by Jonesey95]

MediaWiki message delivery 23:39, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Template:Bronze W Award Nomination/doc

Not trying to edit war but you can see the instructions on WP:WAWARD/NOM. Thank you, Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 23:15, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for fixing the link and adding a category. The template is still very broken, or the instructions are very wrong. I tried following the instructions on the template page and got this very broken result when I tried to use the instructions for "Silver W Award". There is a template in the header, which is not permitted, per MOS:HEAD. My signature is on its own line, indented with a space, which makes it format in monospace. All unused parameters are revealed as code instead of tested for and hidden. One of the images is broken. And so on. Something in the documentation should indicate clearly that this template is in development and should definitely not be used. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:26, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Seems like you didn't {{subst:}} it, which is the reason why it shows up like that. I have put them on my award workshop, they work fine for me: Special:Diff/1250358302 Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 23:29, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

As for the MOS:HEAD reason, I use the same template code as WP:Four Award and no one has brought up an issue with MOS:HEAD there. (attribution was given to the creator as well). And each template needs its testing phase, the award was just revived so I don't expect a lot of people to be awarding so quickly so I have some period to test it. Thank you, Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 23:33, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I copied and pasted from the instructions, which included the subst: wikicode. If I hadn't substed it, you would have seen this mess. In your example, the second instance contains many of the problems that I identified. Please mark the templates as not usable, and document which parameters are required for each template. I suggest that you give actual examples instead of words that do not produce good results when copied. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:35, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I've redone it on my end and everything worked out. I don't see what is happening on your end, the template is clearly working for me and I asked another editor to try it out on their sandbox and worked for them: Special:Diff/1250359174. You are supposed to change the words that are after the parameters to match specific things like in:

{{subst:Bronze W Award Nomination
  | user     = John
  | article  = John's Featured Article
  | dyk1     = John's First DYK
  | dyknom1  = John's First DYK Nomination
  | dyk2     = John's Second DYK
  | dyknom2  = John's Second DYK Nomination
  | dyk3     = John's Third DYK
  | dyknom3  = John's Third DYK Nomination
  | dyk4     = John's Fourth DYK
  | dyknom4  = John's Fourth DYK Nomination
  | dyk5     = John's Fifth DYK
  | dyknom5  = John's Fifth DYK Nomination
}}

Which would produce:

====John( (talk · contribs)====

FA: Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/John's Featured Article/archive1

DYK:

John's First DYK and nomination

John's Second DYK and nomination

John's Third DYK and nomination

John's Fourth DYK and nomination

John's Fifth DYK and nomination

Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 23:47, 9 October 2024 (UTC) Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 23:47, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Template in header, extra parenthesis coming into the header from somewhere. So that's Bronze, almost working. And it looks like you have addressed some of the bugs in {{W Award Nominations}}, per this substed diff. Keep working! Omitted or empty parameters should not expose template code; they should emit errors instead. Proper documentation will explain what parameter values are accepted and which parameters are required. Proper template code will test for all required parameters. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:01, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I've fixed the MOS:HEAD issues. As well, the problem with the omitted or empty parameters, the instruction parameters are the only parameters that you should use because if you don't than that nominee or yourself doesn't qualify for that award. So I see no reason to mess around with the wikicode for so long to figure out a fix to the error issue when I see virtually no reason to. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 00:12, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

OK, good luck. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:20, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

You too and have a good evening. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 00:26, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Flip error

Looking at User:Matrix/sandbox, it's got a div-span flip error, and I thought the solution would have been adding the |tag=div Template:If dark states for block usage, but that results in a {{{1}}} result per (my test). Am I misunderstanding the usage/placement of the tag command, or are these two templates incompatible? Not really seeing a way to rewrite them in reverse hierarchy at the moment, but also not real familiar with them either. Zinnober9 (talk) 18:24, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I fiddled with it. It looks like Matrix is (or was) working on a new template, and it doesn't work yet. I decided to leave it for a while to see if that editor fixed the problems with |tag=div. I created {{If dark/testcases}} in the hope that they would continue troubleshooting. In the meantime, there are lots of other Linter errors to fix. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:35, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for notifying me (and fixing my user page!). This template is still in beta, I need to figure out compatibility and other stuff (like dark mode gadget) out. There is supposed to be a tag=div, and I forgot to add that. You can see Template:Dark mode switch for my last attempt. —Matrix(!) _{ping one}^{when replying} {user - talk? - _uselesscontributions} 18:51, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. I did briefly wonder if it was a testing scenario, but didn't dwell on that thought. Since it's a test, I'll leave it be and wish them luck on solving compatibility issues. Zinnober9 (talk) 19:11, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Baby

WP:BABY – S. Rich (talk) 21:08, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

That is why AGF'd and fixed the first few of your sloppy errors for you. When you insist on wandering around Wikipedia throwing trash on the ground for other editors to pick up, it becomes disruptive, as you can see if you peruse your talk page archives. Please use Preview and inspect the results of your edits. Someday, you'll poke the wrong editor with your mostly helpful but sloppy, guideline-ignoring edits, and you'll find yourself blocked. I hold myself to the same standard: if I break something on a page and don't notice my error, I am fine with being reverted and happy to return to the page to provide a non-disruptive edit. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:15, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

The present version (yours) has 18 redlinks. The one I produced had 19. Please note that many of my edits are done via the mobile app. The mobile app does not render redlinks in its preview. So the one redlink I added ({{ISBN}} instead of {{ISBN?}}) did not appear on the mobile app. So I missed it! Thanks for joining the WP:TEAMWORK to improve the project. – S. Rich (talk) 21:58, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

You're welcome. Are you confused about the difference between WP:REDLINK and WP:REDNOT? Do not create red links to: ... Templates that do not exist. Templates should only be added to a page if and after they have been created. Red links to articles are fine. As for mobile, I don't use it, but if it is broken, please check your edits using the desktop view. You are responsible for your edits, as we all are. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:21, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

AFL Women's templates

I've just finished deleting the AFLW club templates that you marked as deleteable because of Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2024 September 14. However, I skipped Melbourne and Carlton because you didn't tag them. Should they be deleted too, or do they need to wait for a time? Nyttend (talk) 21:55, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

I missed them because they were newly in use when I tagged the others. I have tagged them now, after merging the new usages. Thanks. – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:02, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Possible error: four single quote marks, and self-closed nowiki tag

I was trying to improve "four single quote marks" markup with <nowiki/> on various pages, and then I decided to expand the explanation in WP:Linter#Other errors, and you improved it with {{'}}, but on further research I changed it to {{`}}, which doesn't add spacing. Then I went to Help:Nowiki and saw this: "Unless you use the two "balanced" nowiki tags, troubleshooting strip marker errors and template parameter-handling inconsistencies is a risk. Also, a rendering error may arise when two [[...]] square brackets are on the same line, or two {{...}} curly brackets are in the same section, but only when the two have the nowiki markup placed inconsistently." I realized I needed to know more, so I clicked into strip marker, and it gives vague warnings. I believe that '''<nowiki/>' isn't going to trigger strip marker exposure, but I don't actually know. I've been using <nowiki/> routinely for years, for example, when someone stubs out markup and has intended to bold a null string, I have changed '''''' to '''<nowiki/>'''. I suppose I could have used ''' ''' instead, but, I wish there were clearer instructions on when it is or isn't safe to use <nowiki/>. If you can say anything about the safety of <nowiki/>, I'd welcome it. Also, I have to say I find the "rendering error" business to be extremely confusing. I think they are trying to say, "If you insert a self-closed nowiki tag between the opening brackets of a wikilink, but not the closing brackets, or vice versa, for example [<nowiki/>[Water]], which appears to render as [[Water]], even though it seems to work, it might not always work." But maybe I've missed the point entirely. This should be clarified. —Anomalocaris (talk) 05:15, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

The issue with stripmarkers is that it depends on who is using them and for what purpose. The Mediawiki stipmarkers should show clearly, so you can know if you done something to annoy them. An example can be seen in the contents table of Neural network Gaussian process. HTH All the best: Rich Farmbrough 11:05, 14 October 2024 (UTC).

I think the "two sets of brackets" thing may be describing something like [[start]] and of [[end of link]], which renders as plain text for me, but I don't know why it does. The syntax highlighter is not happy with it, but it is different from the parser. Wikimagic, I guess. As for why I changed your nowiki to a template, I have found that culturally, putting nowiki tags into articles tends to be frowned upon, although I can't put my finger on a guideline at the moment. There is a "nowiki added" tag that is sometimes applied to diffs, so there may be some reason for that. I'll put it in the back of my head and return here if I come up with anything more useful. – Jonesey95 (talk) 12:52, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

The "nowiki added" tag is often found along with the "Visual edit" tag, and in such cases is usually the result of people attempting to use VE to add Wikimarkup, as here. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 14:45, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, maybe that is the gut feeling I have about seeing that "nowiki added" tag along with the edit summary: many times, it indicates that a mistake has happened, often due to one of the many, many bugs in the Visual Editor. Long-unaddressed VE bugs like this one are the reason I chose to remove the list of ISBN errors from my watchlist and work list. Another editor and I had that list essentially empty a while ago, but with the rise of VE, it became futile (IMO) to try to keep the list clean. I know, I'm off on a tangent, but TL;DR: seeing nowiki tags make me think that something is wrong, so I remove and try not to use them. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:06, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

I personally use {{'}} or {{'s}} in article space and replace the nowiki tags when they are used instead. Gonnym (talk) 17:05, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Rich: I think you're saying, if you save an edit that includes nowiki tags, and there is no immediate strip marker exposure, you don't have to worry about future strip marker exposure. You didn't actually say this, but that's my takeaway. Please let me know I have the right takeaway.

Jonesey95 and others: My takeaway is that nowiki tags are fine, but unfortunately, the visual editor sometimes inserts bad nowiki markup, and because of this, edit summaries note when nowiki markup is added, and also, nowiki tags are suspect because editors know that sometimes nowiki tags are bollixed, so, even though sometimes a self-closed nowiki tag, or a pair of open and close nowiki tags, may be the most expeditious way to solve a problem, it's a good idea to do it another way if possible, so that other editors won't waste time worrying about your use. Does this seem right?

The problem is, Help:Nowiki gives examples of when to use nowiki tags. It seems that Wikipedia specifically recommends using nowiki markup, including the self-closed tag, to (a) prevent a colon, number sign, or asterisk from being in column one and emitting an <li> tag; (b) prevent two or three apostrophes from emitting italic or bold tags; (c) causing wiki markup such as a wikilink, or HTML markup such as a comment, to display as markup rather than to be processed. If we agree with these reasons, it's strange to deprecate '<nowiki/>'''single quotes around bold'''<nowiki/>', rendering as 'single quotes around bold'. I suppose the answer could be, we have an elegant workaround for separating single quotes from italic and bold markup, so you should use it, and if we come up with an elegant workaround for preventing the emission of <li> tags, you should use that too. —Anomalocaris (talk) 00:23, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, that is my opinion. Of course, like all things, more knowledge might indicate cases where it's likely that something will break in the future. <nowiki/> is a hack, it might have no effect on a smart enough renderer whereas having opening and closing tags is at least clear. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 12:47, 15 October 2024 (UTC).

Empty table on Template:Science Fiction Convention List

Thanks for your recent edit to Template:Science Fiction Convention List. Do you know how to remove the empty table at the top? Gbeeker (talk) 12:35, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, but it's fine to leave it there. Template pages typically show how the code renders with empty parameter values. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:02, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Re: how people keep finding obsolete tags to put in their articles

Hi! I saw in your edit summary on Los caprichos that you wondered where people keep finding that obsolete syntax. The answer is simple in this case: es:Los caprichos, the Spanish article from which this is a translation. Looking at es:Especial:Errores_de_sintaxis, they've got a long, long way to go. 6.6M obsolete tag errors, oof. I wonder if there's an opportunity for some cross-wiki initiative to handle the low-hanging fruit across all projects. --rchard2scout (talk) 10:09, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I recently became aware of these cross-wikipedia imports, and figured this might be one of them. I will continue to use this slightly obnoxious edit summary, if only to raise a bit of awareness. In this case, it's tilting at windmills, but it might help someone else. – Jonesey95 (talk) 12:56, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Signature link query

Found a mismatch for the User:MisterWiki search link on Wikipedia:Linter/Signature submissions. There's no search link for MisterWiki, and the one listed for them is finding 8 results for Nixeagle and I don't see Nixeagle on the page anymore. Zinnober9 (talk) 03:41, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Hm, sloppy. I have fixed it. Thanks for finding this! – Jonesey95 (talk) 12:42, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Messed up template when subst

Hi, I tried to use the new {{AFLW}} template, and whilst I leave it as a template when in a table or infobox, I have always substituted it when in text.

However, instead of it producing the simple link that it meant to make, it made an absolute mess. Is this a no include issue? Please fix it. I was happy with the old system and you all said that this would be a straightforward change. The-Pope (talk) 15:48, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I've added "safesubst" to the template, so you can now use substitution. -- WOSlinker (talk) 17:58, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

October blitz bling

		The Minor Barnstar
		This barnstar is awarded to Jonesey95 for copy edits totaling between 1 and 1,999 words (including rollover words) during the GOCE October 2024 Copy Editing Blitz. Congratulations, and thank you for your contributions! Miniapolis 22:31, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

working bots

Look at the recent changes from Legobot, it's now able to clear pages after Qwerfjkl (bot) fixed them. Finally some actual progress. Gonnym (talk) 11:09, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

We were at around 3,085,000 some errors around the time task 31 started, and we are at 3,032,000 some now, so it's been some damn good progress between the two of them. I'm curious if we'll dip below 3 million before the end of the month. Zinnober9 (talk) 16:18, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

I think we'll be close if I can get a list of new patterns to Qwerf for processing. As for Legobot following up, I have been hoping for that sort of partnership. I have been leaving complex font tag nesting for Legobot and noting it in my edit summaries for a couple of years now. See, for example, Talk:Friedrich Nietzsche/Archive 16. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:28, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Technical Barnstar
	Thank you very much for dealing with the Special:UnusedTemplates list that seems to be endless but will eventually reach 0 entries through your tireless work! ~ ToBeFree (talk) 23:56, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

It is currently literally endless, since it has a limit of 5,000 pages. My current goal is to get the total list below 5,000 by dealing with the list a bit at a time. Thanks for helping with a few of those bits! – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:51, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

"Smaller"

In font sizing, is "font-size:smaller" valid? It surprisingly works, but I'm not seeing it talked about any as a valid equivalent. Do you know? Zinnober9 (talk) 23:22, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) @Zinnober9: It's been a documented part of CSS ever since CSS level 1 way back in 1996, was carried through into CSS 2.1 (2011), is still part of the current CSS Fonts Module Level 3 (2018), and is proposed to also be in the CSS Fonts Module Level 4, which is still at the Working Draft stage. In all of those specs, smaller is one of two valid values for the relative-size keyword - the other being (naturally enough) larger. It's unlikely to be deprecated - one thing about the CSS specs is that once something is documented as valid CSS, it normally remains valid even if better methods become available. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 00:01, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, "smaller" is valid CSS, but it renders text at 83.3% of nominal, so it shouldn't be used in most places in the English Wikipedia, per MOS:SMALLFONT. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:28, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

It's 83.3% if the browser follows nothing later than CSS 2.1; most current browsers implement CSS Fonts Module Level 3 for which the smaller font scaling is 88.9%. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:12, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Hmm, I checked it in Brave Version 1.70.117 Chromium: 129.0.6668.59 (Official Build) (arm64), released October 17, 2024, and that's what was displayed for me. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:00, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you both. Good to know. Was within a user signature, so usage isn't against MOS. Zinnober9 (talk) 02:02, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

s-bef (succession box font size)

Hi Jonesey95. Thanks for your latest edit in the s-aft template, especially regarding the font size. However, I wish you could also make the font size in the s-bef template larger as well. Just like the s-aft template, the s-bef template also has small "as..." parameter that might be too small. I hope you could enlarge the font size as well to make reading easier and for consistency. RyanW1995 (talk) 14:32, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks for the tip. The small size was applied only to |as=, which is used in 5,000 of the 220,000 transclusions, so I just hadn't noticed it yet. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:53, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Captain Underpants

Captain Underpants and the Terrifying Return of Tippy Tinkletrousers and Talk:Captain Underpants and the Terrifying Return of Tippy Tinkletrousers deleted per your request. I find the situation a little confusing (e.g. why move Captain Underpants and the Terrifying Return of Tippy Tinkletrousers temp, when it has no significant history?), so I've done nothing other than the deletions; please go ahead and move the pages. Nyttend (talk) 19:41, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

I honestly don't know what happened. I was trying to do a normal round-robin move, but I clearly botched it badly. I don't do many of them; I'll re-read the instructions next time. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:40, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Inline image discussion

I'm not sure how to proceed/reply to Aaron Liu in regards to Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Warn on inline image usage. I feel I've been clear on the issue as I see it (EIS does not support multiple captions at this time), and feel he thinks EIS already accounts for this case. I like the idea of a message asking users if they meant to go without frame/frameless/thumb, (but not requiring their usage) since I find giant images not infrequently with newer editors, but I'm lost with how he thinks "multiple captions" is going to allow for/solve that, and I'm lost with how it seems that he is saying EIS already handling multiple captions now. I've given it a few days to mull and make sense on a later reread, but I'm still as lost as I was when I read his first reply, and I'm not sure if Aaron and I are on opposite sides of the table, or on the same side arguing semantics of the same viewpoint with different words. Your take?

I just don't want them to create something that ends up swamping us with errors they didn't know about beforehand, and having to go around trouting those who encouraged the use of syntax usage that isn't currently supported that causes tracked errors until it's fixed. Zinnober9 (talk) 02:33, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

My take is that the idea is not implementable, so I'm not worried about it. I linked to a search result with over 100,000 pages where everything is working fine but the proposed criteria would cause an error message. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:44, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks

... for addressing some recent URL edits by Kanenguyen 99 hy. I noticed some of the added URLs were not even for the correct businesses. Strange. Happy editing! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 16:35, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I also reported them to WP:AIV. The spam sites looked like some sort of bot-created scrapes from Yelp or another review site. I assume that driving traffic to the sites will somehow result in money being redirected to the spammer? I do not understand the modern economy. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:36, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you!

Hi, Jonesey95 ! Thank you so much for correcting those Lint errors on my Userpage without disturbing the formatting I'm working on. That was thoughtful of you. ^-^~~ Saffronsilk 16:58, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

You're welcome. Feel free to ask if you have any questions about how Wikipedia works. There is an endless amount to learn. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:17, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

That's kind of you. I definitely will. I was an IP editor for a few years, but recently I've started editing more prolifically and I thought it worthwhile to formalize my presence. It was hard to collaborate with other Editors as an IP, and I missed out on a lot of mentorship. Saffronsilk 17:23, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Short Description

Hi there @Jonesey95,

Just wanted to pop in here and say thanks regarding how to find articles that lack short descriptions. I've actually gotten the number down from 764 to at least 482 with more on the way. It's very helpful, so again, thank you for the recommendation :) Losipov (talk) 22:03, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Losipov, great work. You can find a lot more articles by changing the year in the search (from 1976 to 1975, for example). Just keep changing the year until you're done! I find creating short descriptions for biographical articles very easy: "Algerian gymnast", "Canadian politician", "English author", etc., with birth–death year ranges as appropriate. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:10, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Textdiff template

Do you happen to know if there is a {{textdiff}} template for paragraphs? Looking like many of the remaining ins/dels in Talk for the HTML misnests are using this template for multiple paragraphs and this template doesn't accept content with any line breaks. I'm not immediately sure what to change it to to fix those. My first thought was {{textdiff2}} akin to the {{tq}} {{tq2}} idea, but doesn't exist. Or could the template be adjusted to accept multilined content? I suspect I'm being too optimistic in that question, but worth asking. Zinnober9 (talk) 16:45, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

I've been ignoring the problem of {{textdiff}} quite assiduously for a couple of years now. I'll give it some thought. We have added a |div=yes option to a few templates; I may have experimented with it with this template, but I don't remember.

For now, I'm focused on the rest of the HTML5 misnesting, and making good progress. Most of them are very easy to fix, but there are almost no "batch" fixes. They are all one-by-one, so it is slow going. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:02, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. Was worth checking. There's always a template I've not run across, so thought there was a chance of one I didn't know for this situation.

Easy nonduplicates has been my findings on the HTML5 misnested set as well. Been a lot of missing span closers for span plainlinks, and some quirky IP unsigned signatures messed up by a bot that added unexpected junk or split them to three/four lines, but the contents are never the same. Zinnober9 (talk) 02:45, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Now that Talk space is clear except for diff-related errors, I have asked for help with {{Text diff}}. I posted a link to that discussion on WP:VPT. I see on the template's talk page that I tried to fix it last year. – Jonesey95 (talk) 02:01, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Database reports/Unused modules

Could you please move without a redirect the user modules to "Module:Sandbox/<user; without prefix>/..."? Gonnym (talk) 13:30, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I moved a couple of them, but then as I was checking incoming links, I found this 2018 discussion. Is there a more recent discussion? – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:48, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure I had a batch a few months back. Let me see if I can find them. Gonnym (talk) 13:58, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2024 September 10 and Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2024 September 29, some were deleted, others moved to the Sandbox sub pages. If you aren't comfortable moving them, I'll just send them the long way via TfD. Gonnym (talk) 14:02, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I think TFD is the right way to go. I don't really see a precedent in those recent discussions. There are only seven sets of modules, if I am counting correctly, so it shouldn't be too onerous. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:35, 15 November 2024 (UTC)