Talk:Siege of Breteuil/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Iazyges (talk · contribs) 20:03, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Criteria

GA Criteria
GA Criteria: 1 1.a Y 1.b Y 2 2.a Y 2.b Y 2.c Y 2.d Y 3 3.a Y 3.b Y 4 4.a Y 5 5.a Y 6 6.a Y 6.b Y

• No DAB links Y
• No dead links Y
• No missing citations Y

Prose Suggestions

Please note that almost all of these are suggestions, and can be implemented or ignored at your discretion. Any changes I deem necessary for the article to pass GA standards I will bold.

Lede

• It lasted from April 1356 to about 20 August. suggest It lasted from April 1356 to about 20 August of the same year.

Oops. Changed to "April to about 20 August 1346".

• Instead John renewed the siege of Breteuil. suggest John then renewed the siege of Breteuil.

Done.

• Meanwhile, the Black Prince, son and heir of the English King, the capital "King" makes me think you had meant to insert Edward III of England,; I've edited it to Meanwhile, the Black Prince, son and heir of the English King Edward III of England,; feel free to revert this.

Reverted. This is my understanding of how MOS:JOBTITLE works, but feel free to come back at me.

• beat off the attack, cam we make this beat back the attack?

Why? I have no real objection. It slightly changes the meaning. Is that why you suggest it? Or do you see them as synonyms and dislike "beat off" for some reason?

Well, it did make me laugh at 2 am. I think in the US "beat off" means masturbate far more than it summons up defending oneself. I've never seen it used as such by an American source, and several times I've seen people have made jokes about a more British usage, such as an article about a man "beating off" a shark. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 19:07, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Iazyges, that had me completely baffled. So I looked it up on Wictionary. Made me laugh too. I am going for definition 1 - To drive something away with blows or military force. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:16, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

I don't think we do that sort of thing in the UK. Changed to "repulsed". Gog the Mild (talk) 21:01, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Iazyges, re "I've never seen it used as such by an American source" - p. 346. I own this in paper and your comment tickled my memory. Happily Google meant that I didn't have to reread the whole book! Gog the Mild (talk) 21:32, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Hmm, that is interesting. He was born in Northern Lower Michigan, so perhaps it's the Canadian influence? It's my understanding that heading up to Canada for birthdays/other events is somewhat common up there because the drinking age is lower. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 21:35, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Background

• the possession of which made them vassals of the kings of France. by this period, would it be fair to say that the French viewed them as vassals, more than they actually were in anything other than name? Not my period of expertise, admittedly.

Nope. They were vassals. And did formal feudal homage.

• which was to last 116 years. suggest which was to last 116 years, with various periods of ceasefire/truce (whichever you like better if you go forward with it). to allow a reader unfamiliar with the war to know it wasn't 116 years straight of war.
• nor occasional fighting on a larger scale. suggest nor even occasional fighting on a larger scale.

No real problem, but don't you feel it is a bit POVy?

I didn't consider that, no issue excluding if it makes you uncomfortable source-wise. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 19:13, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Prelude

• Arras rebelled and killed loyalists. suggest The city of Arras rebelled and killed loyalists.

Done.

• April 1356 they were dining at the table of Charles, suggest April 1356 these nobles were dining at the table of Charles,

Good point, done.

• One of those imprisoned was the notoriously treacherous Charles II, King of Navarre and one of the largest landholders in Normandy suggest One of those imprisoned was the notoriously treacherous Charles II, King of Navarre who was one of the largest landholders in Normandy; else the "largest landholders in Normandy" sounds like a different person, to me at least.
• where one of Charles' younger brothers, Louis, was administering the country. On receiving the news Louis began raising troops. I've added a link to Louis, Duke of Durazzo, per Philip III of Navarre's page, think this is the right Louis; the family section only mentions one other, who is older than Charles. Feel free to revert if I got the wrong one, somehow.

Thanks.

Second siege

• and beat off the attack here also can we go with beat back?

As above.

Aftermath

• I've added a link from Godfrey d'Harcourt to Geoffroy d'Harcourt as I believe these are the same person. Feel free to revert, as always.

It is. Thanks.

Notes

• The Greenwood of the three "Wagner, John A" sources appears to be Greenwood Publishing Group per Worlcat, suggest standardizing to Greenwood Publishing Group as in "Jaques, Tony".

Done.

• That is all of my suggestions, passing now. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 08:38, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Iazyges, I have gone with most, but nor all, of your suggestions, and have a couple of queries. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:02, 18 September 2021 (UTC)