Talk:2024 Central European floods

Requested move 20 September 2024

2024 Central European floods → Storm Boris (2024) – Wrong name: Boris affected also Southern Europe (Italy and Greece).-- Carnby (talk) 10:00, 20 September 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. 𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 17:10, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Support - As Carnby stated, it also affected southern Europe, and it should be renamed to Storm Boris. SomeoneWiki04 (talk) 13:03, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Support Storm Boris (without the year) - I also agree with Carnby as the floods are also impacting southern Europe. Furthermore, I think it is unnecessary to include the year disambiguation as other storms named "Storm Boris" are either tropical cyclones or tropical storms different from this low depression in the mid-latitude region. Besides, the other "Storms Boris" had much less damage than this one. 한태경 (talk) 16:23, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Support as Boris caused the flooding. Tavantius (talk) 17:34, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Support as per nom - FloridaMan21 02:41, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Support per nom. Mellk (talk) 08:39, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Support that's real name for floods. Luvigas36437 (talk) 10:24, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Hardly Oppose People THINK! Genoa Low "Boris" and Floods of September 2024 in Europe ware (in the case of the letter is) two different weather phenomena (Flood is a consequence of the storm/low/cyclone). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bociek O-le (talk • contribs) 14:17, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose the corresponding European wiki articles are each titled as a variant of 2024 Central European floods, and I see no reason not to follow their lead. If there is evidence that English-language sources do not refer to the flooding like this then the title can be changed. Looking through the English-language sources currently in the article I do not see that evidence. ― Synpath 16:55, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
• Neutral As an example of precedent, the article Hurricane Katrina refers to other articles in the following structure:

Impact:

Effects of Hurricane Katrina in the Southeastern United States

Aftermath:

Social effects of Hurricane Katrina

Political effects of Hurricane Katrina

Hurricane Katrina disaster relief

Displacement after Hurricane Katrina

― Bluefalcon9226 (talk) 18:42, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

I know but when you have 20 people who can't decide on a coherent structure here on wikipedia, that's where the ploblem lies in overall! Like 13 people support this, in meanwhile only 6 opposes, and yours which is neutral and it results to twenty people... Luigi Cotocea (talk) 12:01, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Support as per norm. Dima Nekhoroshyi (talk) 21:51, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose. The proposed name "Boris storm" is not really covered by any media, and for that reason, it isn't recognized by most of the people. I think that 2024 Central and South European Floods would make. We can also consider September 2024 European floods. Karol739 (talk) 22:45, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

it also affected Eastern Europe though, so the latter is more correct. SomeoneWiki04 (talk) 05:27, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Support - If anything, it should be "Central and Eastern European floods" as most of the areas affected are actually in Eastern Europe (e.g. Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, etc.), however that would exclude the Southern European countries affected. "Central, Eastern, and Southern European floods" is too lengthy, so "Storm Boris (2024)" is the best alternative. --Pitsarotta (talk) 23:41, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

@Pitsarotta we can shorten it to just 2024 European floods, as it is currently. Karol739 (talk) 23:49, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Poland and the Czech republic is in Central Europe Abcmaxx (talk) 12:33, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Please see the response to Bociek below, thanks. --Pitsarotta (talk) 13:53, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

@Pitsarotta No Eastern European country suffered from this storm or flood. Poland, Slovakia and Hungary, which you mentioned, are in Central Europe. Bociek O-le (talk) 12:34, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes and no. This is not really relevant to the current discussion, so I've hidden it so as to not derail things (edit the page to see). For that reason, please let's not continue this here. --Pitsarotta (talk) 13:30, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Support - Honestly, when it comes to floods, we should name them after the storm that caused it, like Storm Boris. I mean, 2024 Central European floods? That sounds like the title of a boring documentary! When was the last time you actually needed to Google something that vague? It’s like naming your pet goldfish 'Fishy' so basic you know! Let’s just face it: when those floods hit, it was all Борис fault! So let’s do the right thing and rename it to Storm Boris. He brought the chaos, so he deserves the credit!

I mean the weather administration needs to be credited as well for having us articles with their storm names here on wikipedia, don't you guys think that? Luigi Cotocea (talk) 11:56, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Support - I believe naming it something like "2024 Storm Boris" or something to that effect. It is less general, 2024 Central European floods is quite a vague name and refers to a larger period of time (one year). I also agree with many other points that people who support the change have made. AnonamousBeans (talk) 02:22, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Support per norm. Altorespite 🌿 02:54, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Support With or with the year. Boris did the majority of the damage. Felicia (talk) 12:00, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Strong oppose The precedent here is 1997 Central European flood. The storm only caused the water to rise but was not the direct cause the majority of the flooding, furthermore the floods are still ongoing. A storm is a weather event and should have it's own article, the flooding and overspill of the rivers is significant enough to have its own article. Abcmaxx (talk) 12:33, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

What is flooding but water rising? If the storm makes the floods then the flooding is part of the storm. Does the storm article only cover the rain when it's falling, but when it hits the ground it's part of an article on the flood? Dima Nekhoroshyi (talk) 12:49, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Agreed with Dima, I am also puzzled by this. The floods are part of the storm's effects, so they can definitely be seen as part of the storm (similarly to how we would talk about the destruction caused by a tornado instead of trying to separate the two). --Pitsarotta (talk) 13:53, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

The cause isn’t direct. The storm causes one area to have heightened water levels but then that water moves across the rivers having a knock on effect on other tributaries and therefore settlements. Settlements further up the Oder river weren't affected by the storm, but are but the subsequent flooding; settlements further east such as along the Vistula river were affected by the storm but didn't experience any significant floods despite the storm being just as heavy at times. Abcmaxx (talk) 20:01, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

I'd argue the cause is direct because the floodwater is rain from the storm. If settlements are affected by flooding then they are affected by the storm. Dima Nekhoroshyi (talk) 20:16, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Support as Boris also caused lots of wind damage and several tornadoes 2600:1014:B146:5606:0:4E:97B2:801 (talk) 20:38, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose as this goes against convention of highlighting floods in the region as Central European floods Meellk (talk) 11:44, 24 September 2024 (UTC) Blocked sockpuppet. SilverLocust 💬 00:20, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't think that the 2010 Central European floods article is an accurate comparison to Storm Boris. The 2010 floods were caused by multiple weather events, none of which I could find a name for. The 2024 floods are specifically caused by Boris. Since the floods are a consequence of a storm with a clear name, they should be talked about in the article about the storm, not a separate article. Dima Nekhoroshyi (talk) 17:06, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

The storm is the storm, the Central European flood is the Central European flood. One is general, the other is a specific event. Meellk (talk) 17:19, 25 September 2024 (UTC) Blocked sockpuppet. SilverLocust 💬 00:20, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't understand. If the flood is part of the storm, shouldn't the flood be in the article about the storm? Dima Nekhoroshyi (talk) 18:19, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose - I think Storm Boris (2024) should be created as a separate article discussing the Genoa low and it's effects in a more broad, general sense, while this article should keep its original name and focus on the floods in detail. Zupaz (talk) 00:58, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

@Zupaz Agree with you @Zupaz Bociek O-le (talk) 23:13, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Strong support - To begin with, the storm effected far more than just Central Europe; France and Italy were also effected by the same storm, in a very similar time frame and to a similar extent; the only thing separating them is an un-agreed upon definition of a geographic grouping (see Central Europe, Definitions). Because of what I just wrote, I will also say it would be a good idea to consider consolidating articles like 2024 Switzerland floods, 2024 France floods and 2024 Germany floods as all are very stubby and can easily fit into the space of one article, with their former title being a redirect to a section. (This discussion is very similar to another talk page discussion so I posted a similar comment both here and there, I also encourage others here to look there for ideas, as it seems to me these two talk's have large overlap) Sebrana (talk) 17:12, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose. per WP:CRITERIA. The media talks about the damage done by the floods and how many people died in the floods, not the damage done by the storm (that caused the floods). Also we have some consistency, see 2024 Central European_floods#See also and categories Category:Natural disasters in Austria, Category:Natural disasters in the Czech Republic, Category:Floods in Germany etc. If more than Central Europe was hit, the page should be renamed or merged with 2024 European floods. If needed, Storm Boris (2024) should be a separate article, as suggested above, but moving this article directly to Storm Boris (2024) does not make sense. FromCzech (talk) 09:20, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Good points and well said. Pitsarotta (talk) 16:16, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

@Carnby Sure ThatCzechGuy (talk) 16:53, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Strong support - 203.163.234.112 (talk) 10:07, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Oppose per Abcmaxx. This article is about the floods, it's not about the Storm. The title should reflect that, per other examples cited.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:44, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Relisting for more commentary. 𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 17:10, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Oppose I don’t know what X thought of calling this event a storm, but I don’t care. Per ThatCzechGuy Oeleau (talk) 19:06, 6 November 2024 (UTC)