Template talk:EngvarB

This template was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

Keep, 2020 October 9, see discussion.
Keep, 2019 April 6, see discussion.
No consensus, 5 October 2013, see discussion.

Purpose of the date parameter

@Ohconfucius: This template was briefly listed at Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Dated templates. Is it appropriate for bots/AWB users to fill in the "date" parameter if it is missing? I believe I read somewhere that this "date" is supposed to be the month in which the text was last checked by your script. Please clarify the documentation. -- John of Reading (talk) 06:14, 31 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

John of ReadingYes, it s indeed appropriate for bots to do so, and I bellieve there's at least one bot that goes around adding template parameters where they are absent. The said bot, however, does not change pre-existing dates. When editing with AWB, you should therefore replace any existing dated template with an undated one (and allow the bot to do the work, or you can update the template by substituting {{currentmonth}} and 2024. -- Ohc ^¡digame! 08:38, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ohconfucius: My question was resolved by this edit later on the same day, back in 2013. -- John of Reading (talk) 20:51, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Purpose

Can someone explain the purpose of this template? If there is a need for this and the other regional English variants, should there not also be a Template:EngvarUS to indicate articles that contain regional US spelling as opposed to international English? --Bermicourt (talk) 18:01, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's probably for Ohcon's bot-assisted editing, but it is needless given other templates and seems to wreck formatting for some pages. Further, it doesn't seem to be in any way justified by searches of each page's edit history (There are much too many pages going on the list for that to be the case) and no such bot-assisted protection is being extended to American English pages. Nominated for deletion. —

Llywelyn II

06:46, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@user:Ohconfucius perhaps you could explain its use. -- PBS (talk) 12:31, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Kindly notify any script errors at User_talk:Ohconfucius/EngvarB ao that errors are addressed promptly. -- Ohc ^¡digame! 08:27, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect Template:use Commonwealth English

Ping user:Ohconfucius

Why not redirect this to Template:use Commonwealth English? as a more meaningful name?

-- PBS (talk) 12:31, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@PBS: Agree. Or it could be renamed to something conveying "non-American/non-Canadian". Its name is purely wrong, and it is being used to tag British English articles where {{Use British English}} is warranted. · • SUM1 • · (talk) 22:37, 14 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

On 6 March 2020, using their script, Ohconfucius changed a {{Use Commonwealth English}} tag to a less specific {{EngvarB}} tag on 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic.

I was going to go round updating the {{EngvarB}} tags to the more specific variants or {{Use Commonwealth English}}, but this makes me wonder if that's even possible given what just happened.

Pinging PBS, LlywelynII

· • SUM1 • · (talk) 07:12, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Unless anyone can define to me what orthographic specificities lie in Commonwealth English, it's the same thing for the purposes of the script. Please refer to script docmentation. -- Ohc ^¡digame! 08:22, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Query

G'day, if an article already has the Use British English template, is it correct to replace it with the EngvarB template? I thought EngvarB was for non-specific English? Thanks, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:47, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Preference of templates

Should the templates for specific national varieties of English be used in preference to this template? If the other template is added, should this template be removed from the page? 72.79.44.97 (talk) 02:46, 23 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Documentation needs clarification, copy editing, and links

I find the documentation for {{EngvarB}} unenlightening, to say the least, and in need of clarification and copy editing. Some examples:

Please note that {EngvarB} is now independent of any British English templating. What does "now" mean in this context? Is there a discussion or RFC or TFD to link to, so that we can understand the history and reasoning behind this template?
Please refer to the author if there is disagreement about words included in the dictionary. The author of what? Which dictionary? What does this sentence even mean?
a periodic script or bot runs [to] clean up spellings, correct[~~ing~~] any new introductions since its last visit, and updat[~~ing~~e] the visit date on the template. (possible copy edits in brackets). If this information is true, please link to the bot's user page and/or BRFA, and explain why there are still templates dated "April 2013" in articles.
This is not a temporary "cleanup" request template. Well, then what is it for? What are we supposed to do about the presence of this template?
What does the "B" indicate in the template's name? If it no longer has its original meaning, to what should this template be renamed?

Any answers to these questions are appreciated. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:20, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have all these questions too. Nurg (talk) 08:44, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have figured out answers to some of the questions above and copy-edited the documentation as needed. I also added some {{clarify}} templates directly to the documentation. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:42, 27 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Seconded. I came here because the WP:EngvarB script I used tried to change the {{Use British English}} template to this one. After reading the documentation, I still have no idea what this template does or why the script tried to use it. Charcoal feather (talk) 17:18, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal to deprecate or rename this template

Given that it has been over ten years since questions about the purpose of this template have gone unanswered on this talk page, I propose that this template be deprecated and new transclusions of it be discouraged. It should be replaced in articles by a specific language-use template, if one can be determined. If one can't be determined, it should be removed. Once all of the transclusions have been removed, we can delete this template or mark it as historical. Note: I have read the TFDs, and I am still confused and unpersuaded. At a bare minimum, this confusingly-named template should be renamed to something that explains exactly what its purpose is. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:32, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support deprecation per Jonesey and my above comments. Charcoal feather (talk) 20:12, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Jonesey95 Support deprecation unless someone can explain the purpose and function of this template. I came here to try to discover why an article about a British-Dutch person had a section "Honors" but am none the wiser. I'll change it to "Honours" and see if anyone objects. PamD 07:25, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I remember participating in a discussion on whether the Joan of Arc article should be in American or British English. It currently follows American conventions. There really needs to be a template for European-specific English. There are more English speakers in Europe than many of the countries which have templates for their own flavours. The European Union, which seems to primarily use English as a cross-state language, has its own Style Guide for EU English, which prefers British conventions over American ones. Since France is in the European Union, it doesn't make sense to use American conventions on the above article. I'm doubtful that many in Europe use -ize. This template should be depreciated in favour of regional ones for places where English is not the primary language but is still widely-spoken. 𝓣𝓱𝓮 𝓔𝓭𝓾𝓬𝓪𝓽𝓲𝓸𝓷 𝓐𝓾𝓭𝓲𝓽𝓸𝓻 19:40, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]