Talk:Yahya Sinwar

Duplicate section

The paragraph: << Born in the Khan Yunis refugee camp in Egyptian-ruled Gaza in 1962, his family was expelled or fled from Al-Majdal Asqalan (Ashkelon) during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. He finished his studies at the Islamic University of Gaza where he received a bachelor's degree in Arabic Studies. >> is literally repeated in the Early Life section. Someone should probably delete it from the article's introduction. Ranieri001 (talk) 10:48, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

@Ranieri001 Oh.. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 14:18, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 April 2024

The opening sentence of the third paragraph is hard to read. I propose the following rewording, which does not change the factual information but makes it easier for the reader to parse. The current wording is:

"For orchestrating the abduction and killing of two Israeli soldiers and four Palestinians he considered to be collaborators in 1989, he was sentenced to four life sentences by Israel, of which he served 22 years until his release among 1,026 others in a 2011 prisoner exchange for Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit."

I suggest:

"In 1982, Sinwar orchestrated the abduction and killing of two Israeli soldiers and four Palestinians he considered to be collaborators. He was sentenced to four life sentences by Israel. He served 22 years until he and 1,026 others were released in 2011 in exchange for Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit."

Thanks, Opolito (talk) 17:53, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

The wording is currently even more confusing. I hope it gets fixed soon. Seaporbs (talk) 12:59, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Last edit

@האופה: "is thought" refers to the location, while the human shield claim is indeed still stated in WP voice. Plus you have only added one theory and ignored the two rest. The very existence of three theories is indicative of unreliability. Please stop edit warring and seek consensus and demonstrate verifiability for the information you are trying to add. Three Israeli websites are obviously not independent nor reliable for this information. Makeandtoss (talk) 09:47, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

@האופה: Still waiting for your elaborations on your edit. Makeandtoss (talk) 15:19, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

If you have concerns regarding the sources, you should start a discussion on WP:RSN. We better evaluate sources based on their sticking to factual reporting rather than their country of origin, so their location in Israel is irrelevant to this conversation. If you're familiar with other theories of Sinwar's current whereabouts which other reliable sources support you're welcome to add them as well. HaOfa (talk) 17:27, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

@האופה: Now how WP works. Per WP:BURDEN, it is the responsibility of the inserter of the material to demonstrate verifiability. Makeandtoss (talk) 14:27, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Lede

@Thegreatrebellion: What value does this sentence add to the lede as a summary of the body? " He is regarded as one of the most prominent leaders of Hamas, alongside Ismail Haniyeh, Khaled Mashal, Mohammed Deif and Marwan Issa." Sinwar is already described as the organization's head in GS. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:12, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Yahya Sinwar has been appointed Head of Hamas' Political Bureau

I cannot edit this article. Someone make this change, thanks! XAP14x (talk) 18:05, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

No he hasnt. The sourcing I've seen say Muhammad Ismail Darwish has been appointed interim head of the political bureau. nableezy - 18:07, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Take that back. nableezy - 21:32, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Brain surgery?

There are conflicting reports about where and when he had brain surgery. Our article cites a 2024 NYT article, that says 2004 at Soroka Medical Center.[1] This source [2] says 2008 at Assaf Harofeh Medical Center. This source[3] says 2004 at Shamir Medical Center (the new name of Assaf Harofeh Medical Center).

Because of the conflicts by reliable sources, there is no authoritative source. At best we can report what the sources say ie. according to X it was here, according to Y it was there. In situations like this, older sources closer to the event are more reliable, but since he was not a major figure at the time, it may not have been reported at all, and only recently is it being reported as Israeli doctors saving his life. -- GreenC 22:29, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Not a "definitively reliable" source, but here's a quote from an interview with Tat-Gundar Betty Lahat, who was head intelligence officer of the Israeli Prison Service and commander of the prison where Sinwar was incarcerated. Excerpt from Israeli publication Walla, translated using Google Translate:

"He was terribly afraid. When he started having headaches, we sent him from Nafha prison in the south to Ayalon prison, and later they discovered a tumor near his brain, and the man just fell apart, because it was a very violent type of cancer. We brought him to Assaf Harofeh Hospital, and he underwent surgery to remove it [the growth]. I came to see him, 'You see, the state of Israel saved your life.' He said, 'No one explains to me what my situation is, not even my family knows if this is the end of me.'

"So I called the doctor who explained to him that the tumor had been removed and currently no metastases are seen. But Sanwar continued to be frightened. Every time he saw me he asked, 'What will happen to me, the tumor will not return?' , and senior officials from the Palestinian Authority asked to visit him and were allowed to. First, the Minister of Prisoners' Affairs Sufyan Abu Zeida arrived, and when he left the visit I asked him, 'Well, what, the hero cried for you too?', and he said, 'Yes, there is nothing to be done, Sanwar is afraid for his life.'"

So, according to the head intelligence officer of the Israeli Prison Service and commander of the prison where Sinwar was incarcerated, Sinwar was operated on at Assaf Haforeh Hospital/Shamir Medical Center (where he allegedly visited him). Mooonswimmer 23:20, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

That's a pretty good source, from someone who was there and in a position of authority. It's the same material noted in [4] which gave a date of 2008. Was it 2008? Or 2004 per NYT? -- GreenC 02:50, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Objective language

In this excerpt:

"Despite his leadership among prisoners, Sinwar remained humble, sharing cooking duties and other chores with junior inmates as well as making knafeh for fellow prisoners, fostering camaraderie."

The phrase "Sinwar remained humble," should be removed to maintain a sense of objectivity.

The actions speak for themselves and presenting them on their own is enough to illustrate the point. The clause "Sinwar remained humble," could give the reader a sense of partiality. Afw35 (talk) 03:14, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

I also find the the use of the word snitch a case of not-objective and colloqial language.I would assume one would use informant or collaborators as used before?

"Israeli authorities suspected him of ordering the beheadings of two suspected snitches." 2A00:6020:B297:B700:AC6F:8BEB:7702:70F4 (talk) 06:46, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

He is Alive

He is reportedly alive and not dead. According to reports, he contacted ceasefire deal mediators. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 13:38, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

WP:ECR
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Yeah, He is alive. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 07:34, 15 October 2024 (UTC) Not anymore 87.68.132.68 (talk) 15:12, 17 October 2024 (UTC) Another one bites the dust~ 2A10:8001:8597:0:5EBC:FC19:C86:3535 (talk) 15:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC) @2A10:8001:8597:0:5EBC:FC19:C86:3535 What do you mean by that? BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 15:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC) @87.68.132.68 It's being checked. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 15:54, 17 October 2024 (UTC) @BangladeshiEditorInSylhet: non extended confirmed editors are not supposed to discuss the subject, so please don't respond to them as it makes it difficult to remove their edits. Thanks. M.Bitton (talk) 15:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC) @M.Bitton Ok, I just respond to comments like this, From now on, I'll ignore them even if I am right. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 16:00, 17 October 2024 (UTC) @BangladeshiEditorInSylhet: rather than ignoring them, I suggest you remove them. M.Bitton (talk) 16:01, 17 October 2024 (UTC) @M.Bitton Sure. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 16:02, 17 October 2024 (UTC) @M.Bitton I'll remember to do that from now on. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 16:03, 17 October 2024 (UTC) @BangladeshiEditorInSylhet: in case you're not aware of it, the only thing that they are allowed to do is start an edit request, so don't remove those. M.Bitton (talk) 16:07, 17 October 2024 (UTC) @M.Bitton Ok, I'm now aware of that, Thanks for teaching me. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 16:08, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 October 2024

His death is confirmed by DNA request 2A00:A041:1C1D:CF00:F455:23D1:5979:A47F (talk) 14:08, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

The man is dead. It's confirmed. ZeroByter (talk) 14:15, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Yep, can also confirm. Svsivard (talk) 14:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Is there a source with the DNA claim? Been trying to find one to no avail so far. Procyon117 (talk) 14:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

There's no source because no such test was done yet (or at least, its results were not published). There is no official source claiming his death yet. Hopefully soon. רון18 (talk) 14:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Mhm. It's only a matter of time at this point. Procyon117 (talk) 14:23, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Of course it's a matter of time. But the body was recovered from the ruins only recently, and we are waiting for an official confirmation. I don't say it's not true, I just say it has not been confirmed yet by any official source. רון18 (talk) 14:32, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

I have seen the pictures, and they do resemble him. The corpse is surrounded by idf and it means they have access to it, we’ll wait for the dna tests but it’s likely The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 14:30, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

There is also a front teeth / ear comparison of the corpse to the living person, they are identical. Sources are Telegram / X. Jouk (talk) 14:44, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Until a reliable source(s) comfirm his death. Wår (talk) 15:38, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Some live news blogs seem to consider it confirmed now - CNN says Israel has confirmed to American officials that Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar is dead according to initial DNA testing, a person familiar with the matter said., WaPo similar, etc. We could wait for a more clearly-reliable source though. — xDanielx ^T/_C\^R 16:40, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Its obviously reliably sourced that Israel says he was killed, but no source I see is saying that as a fact in their own voice, only saying Israel says so. nableezy - 17:39, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: this is not an edit request. M.Bitton (talk) 15:54, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 October 2024 (2)

Update death date to 17th of October 2024 2A0D:6FC0:7BE:C500:91F7:83B8:33B0:9D96 (talk) 14:47, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. M.Bitton (talk) 15:54, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

The BBC is now reporting that his death has been confirmed: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy94zdd0nxlt

Did he survive?

Are there any sources to confirm that he is still alive? TheLibyanGuy (talk) 16:10, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Hamas hasn't confirmed yet Omani8678 (talk) 16:38, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Hamas might not ever confirm it. Every major newspaper in the world is going to believe the DNA analysis by Israel and confirm his death, within 24hrs. It's a done thing, as far as Wikipedia rules are concerned. Those attempting to stop the removal of BLP status will cause a lot of needless disruption. -- GreenC 17:02, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

GreenC and other editors, please be aware that WP:BLP policy applies for some time after a person has died. Usually six months, sometimes longer. Cullen328 (talk) 19:46, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Cullen, BLP says that it can apply for a period of time after a death, not that it automatically does.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:00, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Specifically, BLP says "Generally, this policy does not apply to material concerning people who are confirmed dead by reliable sources. The only exception would be for people who have recently died, in which case the policy can extend for an indeterminate period beyond the date of death—six months, one year, two years at the outside. Such extensions would apply particularly to contentious or questionable material about the subject that has implications for their living relatives and friends, such as in the case of a possible suicide or particularly gruesome crime." In other words, the default is removal of BLP status and there have to be circumstances that dictate retention of BLP status.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:08, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

what exactly about BLP would you like to be freed from following here? nableezy - 21:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

I think the better question is why does Sinwar need BLP protection. Wehwalt (talk) 21:35, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

BLP protection? the must adhere strictly to all applicable laws in the United States, to this policy, and to Wikipedia's three core content policies really bothering you here? nableezy - 21:37, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Which of those is bothering you that you feel that this article should be treated specially? Because BLP makes it clear that additional protection is an exception, not a rule. He is dead and beyond being helped or hurt by anything we may say about him. There are times when we give additional protections, but they are generally for the protection of innocent victims and their families, and so have no obvious application here. Wehwalt (talk) 21:54, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

I tend to think all biographies should follow the advice of BLP, that being to write soberly and with adherence to the best sources and maintain a NPOV. Do you feel differently? Or is there some other stricture you would like to be freed from here? nableezy - 22:02, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

All that sounds quite reasonable to me, but that's not the issue here. We change living=yes to living=no as a matter of routine, as we did for Mitzi Gaynor today, here. Is there a reason why Mr. Sinwar should be treated differently from Ms. Gaynor in this regard? Anything else can be settled through normal editing routine and discussion. Wehwalt (talk) 22:50, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

What newspaper has said as a fact that Sinwar is dead? Every one I see says Israel has confirmed it and they attribute it to Israel. nableezy - 17:39, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

@Nableezy Ok point, We need to find more sources. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 14:16, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 October 2024 (3)

Put was instead of is because he died Liad1456 (talk) 16:49, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

BBC confirms death:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy94zdd0nxlt - Tim O'Doherty (talk) 16:52, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

• Support topic is no longer a BLP -- GreenC 16:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  NY Times is reporting "Hamas Leader is Dead". BBC is reporting the death. Is there any case for not removing the "Biography articles of Living People" category from this page? Wehwalt (talk) 17:30, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  Especially since the editnotice on the article is saying "This article is currently being heavily edited because its subject has recently died." Unless Sinwar is the Middle Eastern version of Schrodinger's cat, I suggest we go one way or the other on this. Wehwalt (talk) 17:37, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  They are reporting Israel* confirms his death. nableezy - 17:38, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  NY Times is saying "Hamas Leader is Dead". They are certainly capable of printing "Israel Reports Sinwar Dead" or some such, but they're saying he's dead, taking whatever risk of a Dewey-Beats-Truman reversal there may be and putting in all their chips anyway.

  So what are you saying? That we should remove the date of death and the section on his death, not to mention the edit notice? We should follow the sources, not keep a foot on both sides of the water, and remove the category. Wehwalt (talk) 17:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  WP:HEADLINES. Their actual stories are reporting the IDF saying he is dead. And yes, we should be removing dates of death until sources report is a fact and not as an IDF claim. nableezy - 17:59, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  NY Times just printed his obituary. I think we should go by what the RS we use think of the information they have. In this case, they are willing to make definite statements. You are second-guessing them because you don't like where you think their information came from. That's not enough. Wehwalt (talk) 18:02, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, this would be a source putting it in their own words that he is dead. That resolves the issue for me. The earlier linked BBC story, and the earlier NYT articles, all said Israel confirms. I dont really know why you think at that point following the sources meant not attributing the claim to Israel, but thats a curiosity that will have to remain unanswered I suppose. As far as your claim about what I said, I dont think that remotely resembles anything like reality, but go off Wehwalt. nableezy - 18:03, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  As you wish. We can remove the "living people" cat, in your view, then? Wehwalt (talk) 18:07, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  I think I already answered that, but with the NYT obit yes that's fine with me. nableezy - 18:22, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

  Done. Thank you. Wehwalt (talk) 18:25, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Denied/Confirmed by Hamas

"Denied by Hamas" "Hamas also confirmed his death." Pick one. -- Veggies (talk) 12:49, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

"Grasping an AK-47"

The source article relies on speculation from the photo of his corpse, in which no AK-47 is visible. The IDF spokesperson, Daniel Hagari, claims Sinwar was found with a pistol. Footzitzgerald (talk) 13:02, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@Footzitzgerald True BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 14:14, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Change from Militant to Militiaman, Militant feels like a narrative supportive of IDF, More sources needed also

I suppose changing some words. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 14:20, 18 October 2024 (UTC)