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Totton Secondary Schools Discussion

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Fact Totton - Defined as Original Village of Totton. Not Calmore, West Totton, Hounsdown, Netley Marsh, Cadnam, Winsor, or any other area now known as Totton. This definition of Totton has a secondary school called Testwood. Hounsdown (note the spelling - yes a test)is not considered to be in Totton by true locals. Concede to Benshade council covers both areas and both schools. Not intended as vandalism

86.7.65.222 3 July 2006 (UTC)


-I have referenced the sources for Totton having two secondary schools. (http://www.totton-and-eling.demon.co.uk/S.htm)

-Both Testwood and Houndsdown are areas within 'Totton and Eling' (This being the Totton and Eling Civil Parish - The area covered by the Town Council)

-I agree Houndsdown was built after Testwood, to cater for the overflow and surrounding area catchment (at the time). It was not build solely for the Houndsdown area (which is tiny) as you seem to imply, but for the whole area including Totton.

-I also agree that historically pupils expelled from one, attended the other by default. This happened both ways - Testwood to Houndsdown and Houndsdown to Testwood, but this has no bearing on where they are. In fact it indicates that they are that they for the same catchment area - Totton and area.

-I have referenced articles to show that they are both in Totton.

-I believe your 86.7.65.222 edits were POV and unconstructive (which in wikipedia can be considered vandalism).

-My family has also lived in the area many years, giving me local knowledge, but wariness that I should remain NPOV on articles.

-I attempt not to have bias and have (hopefully) shown my changes to be referenced fact.

Ben


I have renamed this section to avoid attacking any particular users. Please, if there is a problem with the article discuss the facts, not editors. Discuss the content, discussing editors is not helpful. Wikipedia:No personal attacks elaborates.--Commander Keane 20:21, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please add your new comments to the end of the section otherwise we can't work out what going on!

I agree 'Original'/'vanilla' Totton centre would probably not include all the surrounding 'places/areas'. I'm not old enough to know that far back myself. However this article is 'Totton and Eling' and is about 'now' (and now means 2 secondary schools)

Maybe you could put it in a history section in the article - e.g. 'Totton was until 19xx a smaller village and was separate from the surrounding areas such as Calmore and had one school (Testwood School). Do you know when they were 'separate' places? Were they really separate in 1963 still?

Or as you say a new article, but I would suggest that the article should be on Testwood not Totton (as the school is in Testwood 'area')

Ok darn - you got me to spell it wrong - I was daft enough to copy your spelling knowing I was likely to spell it wrong on my own anyway- I could never spell right it which is why I copied it.

Consideration by Locals is POV - It is now in the town council area - which is fact. I consider it to be 'Totton' because of this in addition to my local knowledge as a ex-local.

Posting a new entry for Totton (or Testwood) sounds OK, but be warned that it will look like 'duplication'. It would probably be good to do the other places that are 'part' of Totton - Hounsdown, Brokenford, Eling, Calmore as well to make it look more in place and link between this article and them. Ben 21:13, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Have just noticed that Totton and Eling is a redirect of Totton, so you won't be able to have a 'Totton' article (easily). I suggest a 'Testwood' article and a history reference in the Totton and Eling article. I will add a history section which will probably be suitable.

Ben 21:20, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]


As an ex-local you will no doubt know of the schools are bitter rivals (and always have been) to state one is academic and the other sporting is POV. The current head of Testwood would disagree that the school is not as academically gifted as Hounsdown. Ex pupils would also see this as a major insult.

Yes, historically Totton had wooden huts on the site that is mainly playing fields at Testwood and these predate Hounsdown by many years. The brick building at Hounsdown was built in 1963 as stated. Totton and Testwood and the Salmon Leap area are individually named but collectively formed the original village of Totton. Infact the Testwood school logo has the river, the wood and the salmon encompassed into it. Hence the comments about the single school IN Totton. Hounsdown school is a few miles away in Hounsdown. The main roads "Ringwood Road" and "Salisbury Road" dissect Totton. All the housing between the two roads is considered to be the Original Totton. Everything between the River Test and Salisbury Road is considered to be Testwood and all that falls between the causeway and Testwood is considered Salmon Leap.

Councils come and go and I'm sure the area names will long outlive the pen pushers.

86.7.65.222 6 July 2006


- Yes they certainly are rivals! I agree that the 'academic' does seem slightly POV (I did not write that bit myself). However the 'science college' and 'sports college' tag lines are 'referenceable'/'fact' - Look at the different schools web sites or HCC site. I will remove the word academic.

- That is a good explanation of the areas that you should add to the article. I'd forgotten about the name 'Salmon Leap' - That brought back memories. What about the Brokenford and Rushington areas? And Spicer's hill? Lots of Rushington is newer (1960's?) estate, but Brokenford and Spicer's hill have had houses for many years. Are these not both part of Totton (or are they Eling or ?)?

- I agree Testwood is the nearest to the town centre (if I make the 'centre' is the Civic Centre?), but Hounsdown is only a mile away - Testwood is about 1/2 a mile.

- The real point is that this is an article on the 'Totton and Eling' conurbation - civil parish area. Being an encyclopedia this is the current area not historical area. The history of the area can be added to the article in the appropriate section - Your explanation above would be a good addition to the local area section, I think, with an added explanation in the history section, saying what the 'original' Totton boundaries were and that it has now expanded. You could say that Testwood was the 'secondary' school for this original Totton area.

- However the 'schools' section needs to remain with both schools as this it the current position, and any explanation of the area covered by 'Totton and Eling' needs to include all of the places - Calmore, Hounsdown, Brokenford, Testwood and Hammond's Green etc (plus anywhere else you can think of inside the Totton and Eling CP - like Salmon Leap). This is in the local area section. It might be worth indicating which are in 'Totton' and which 'Eling'.

- I am sure the council area will change - Although practically I expect it will get bigger not smaller (unless it is split) - and when it does the article will no doubt change (as a paper encyclopedia would change the next time it was published) :)

Ben 12:15, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to add comments from here to main page :) Rushington now has a stone plaque as you enter from the first turning off the bypass after the roundabout - The plaque has "Rushington Manor" cut into it. Yet more renaming. Brokenford had some new pathways cut from Totton to the Road at Eling recreation ground. Spicers Hill and Brokenford being the otherside of Ringwood road were always considered Hounsdown areas. The bridge that cosses the trainline was always considered as the divisor oneside being dawbed in abuse about Testwood and the other being dawbed in abuse about Hounsdown. The areas behind Calmore Industrial Estate (which also has a new name) have been regenerated supposedly for boating with lakes and such, but its main use is fishing and a water supply resource. Shame that Totton now has been adopted as the main name for all these areas, villages were more personable and people communicated freely. Sprawling Totton, now a town, still has just Commercial Road and the causeway as it's main exit route. The town centre hasn't changed since the seventies and the concrete eyesore in the center with its' pedestrian crossing now serves to infuriate motorists that have to queue to exit out over the water at Redbridge. The next major change looks like the old tar works and quay area will have extortionate waterside properties built there, a lot of the old buildings have been cleared in this area. Interesting that despite thousands of new houses being built at Calmore, Netley Marsh, Eling etc that no new third secondary school was bulit, I believe with building continuing out at Ower and Netley Marsh it is only time before a new bridge over the water at Marchwood or replacement at Redbridge will be inevitable. I expect the new bridge will be a toll bridge and the toll will cost Tottonians well into the future. Characters such as Mr/s Carlos, Lockies fruit and veg, are long gone, I know the son still trades and the vans can be seen occaisionally but the personal touch / greetings are sadly lacking from those members of society today. ASDA killed village life in Totton the small independant shops and local traders are sorely missed by many. But that's progress - maybe I'll emigrate. 86.7.65.222 6 July 2006

OK. I have added lots of what you have written minus the POV - I hope ;)

I noticed the 'Rushington Manor' stone/concrete thing a couple of weeks ago when I went past and thought it was weird - I suppose it at least shows the 'Rushington' name to people looking for it but it looks ugly and the 'manor' bit is a bit spurious. I had also noticed the old works being cleared - not sure I liked the view before with it, so its going might be good (but then I didn't work there so don't personally care), but more houses is not a good idea, but then they are building them everywhere - Like you say we need to emigrate to escape that - everywhere in the south is getting that treatment.

All that building in the 80's of tiny box houses, filling in the green gaps towards Netley Marsh was what put me off going back to the Totton area when I had the opportunity.

I haven't been to the commercial road for many years so don't know what its like there - when they build ASDA you could see the shops around dying straight away, so I'm not surprised its not healthy. You have a Morrions now as well, but I suppose that's on the outskirts for the new houses, so I suppose its not making too much difference now.

The article is much improved now with the additions you supplied, but needs some work in organisation/wording still. I will probably see what else I can bung in the history and area sections and then try and tidy it up - in a bit - trying to fix Chichester links at the moment.

Ben 15:33, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge

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I am against the proposed merge of articles suggested it would cause a loss of information in many cases and an overloading of the main page. Notably a similar set of proposals was made by an anonymous user to disrupt the Portsmouth page and those of its schools information is here and also here -- Drappel 22:00, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Shipbuilding in Eling

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This appears to be missing. Any takers? The lede is a summary of the article- the quick way to fix it was a new section Description- not ideal but it unjams the article, and problems caused can be fixed later, after the references problem has been cured. --ClemRutter (talk) 20:11, 23 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Totton

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Should Totton be split for the BUA or is the overlap with the parish too great? Although being an ONS BUA might not qualify it as a legally recognized place per WP:GEOLAND it is still likely a strong indicator of being notable. Totton is on 6[1] of my missing article lists namely User:Crouch, Swale/A-Z Mini, User:Crouch, Swale/A-Z bold places, User:Crouch, Swale/County level, User:Crouch, Swale/Bot settlements and User:Crouch, Swale/BUAs as well as 1 of its subpages, User:Crouch, Swale/BUAs/Revised. Eling, Hampshire could perhaps also be split? Thoughts? I have created Draft:Totton, Hampshire which could be moved to Totton if this is agreed though it probably needs more work. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:03, 25 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A split seems reasonable - the two were once separate settlements and each is notable in its own right. The problem this leaves behind is the question of what the parish article should contain if most of the existing content is moved to separate Totton and Eling, Hampshire articles, but that's a common issue for "X and Y" parishes. WaggersTALK 13:26, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
To avoid, or at least manage, duplication there would need to be some local consensus on which areas appeared in which articles. Is the Totton Bypass a sensible dividing line? I looked at the Victoria County History (dated 1911) but that didn't help – it listed Totton as one of several places within the "modern parish of Eling". I looked on the town council website and I see it has five wards (central, north, south, east and west) but I can't quickly find a map showing the ward boundaries. New Forest District Council does publish a ward map which appears to put the boundary of their Totton South ward along the railway line. I don't know the area very well but based on looking at maps and histories, splitting the articles looks like splitting hairs. Are the two areas not speaking to each other? That doesn't sound like a good basis for splitting the article. (Update: I've now looked at the BUA map and that draws the line along Eling Creek/Bartley Water. If that's the proposal here, you could end up merging Eling into Marchwood, and you might even end up with Eling Tide Mill in the Totton article. Neither sounds sensible.) --Northernhenge (talk) 13:58, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Whilst I support a split. The page you've linked isnt the totton BUA but the Totton BUASD. This is the Totton BUA [2] which again doesn't include Eling. Although my source for what counts as Eling is what Google Maps is listing as Eling, which seems to be one street seperated from Totton by Bartley water. I'm assuming this parish is one where two merged? or did Totton just overtake Eling in importance and got added to the name. Eopsid (talk) 23:30, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Eopsid: The parish was renamed from "Eling" to "Totton and Eling" in 1974 as with Crompton being renamed Shaw and Crompton being renamed in 1987. I meant BUASD and it appears that Eling church it outside the BUASD but part of the settlement may well be in it. This is similar to Shaw but not for Shotley Gate which is definately separate as Shotley is also a BUA. Crouch, Swale (talk) 11:31, 10 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Crouch, Swale. Noticed this on the WP:UKGEO. Are you going ahead with the split? Has my support. Eling would I believe pass the GNG as the original name of the parish, and remember WP:NTEMP. Rupples (talk) 17:56, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Rupples: Draft:Totton, Hampshire has been deleted but it could be restored and then moved over the redirect to Totton. Crouch, Swale (talk) 22:15, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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