Talk:Kyriakos Pittakis

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008

Article reassessed and graded as start class. Borderline notability for project.--dashiellx (talk) 18:43, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Kyriakos Pittakis/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 01:46, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:46, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! I'll give it a little bit of spit and polish over the next few days: I've learned a bit since writing it and nominating for GA. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 06:14, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

OK -- I was going to start the review this morning (and still can if you like), but if you're planning to do a quick pass through just let me know when you're ready for me to start. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 09:19, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

I know that I need to look at the images (there's too many of them, and they're creating sandwiches), and to check the bibliography for formatting, consistency and so on. There's also the question of the 'walls', which are better explained in other articles; I'm going to crib some of my material from there and improve this one. I've already done a couple of quick passes, so if you see anything outside those three areas, it's likely that I haven't clocked it, so please do flag it up. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 10:15, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

I went ahead and started another GA review, so I won't get to this till later this morning, so you have a couple of hours at least! Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:26, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

And by the way there are no formatting requirements for GA for the citations, so I would leave that till last -- it'll have no effect on the review. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:26, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks: I'm very happy for you to go outside strict GA criteria if you can see something that will improve the article; equally, I don't want to ask you to do any more work than you've signed up to, so I'm equally happy to keep things strictly within scope. Will work with whatever you decide. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 13:27, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Earwig shows no issues; sources are reliable. I'll skip reviewing image licensing until you've gone through and removed some; I agree there are too many at the moment and they're causing sandwiching issues.

• I think it would be worth giving Otto's nationality when he's first mentioned, since the Bavarian appointments are so relevant to Pittakis's career.
• "Pittakis had the whole temple covered with stones": I can't visualize what is meant here. Clad? Protected by a wall?
• "That year, he cleared and partially reconstructed the steps approaching the monument, Pittakis enlisted Charles Ernest Beulé, a French archaeologist of the French School at Athens, to assist with the removal of medieval and modern structures from the remaining parts of the Propylaea in 1852." Run-on sentence.
• "Towards the end of the excavation, used explosives to blast through a particularly difficult block of mortar": looks like an incompletely edited sentence.
• "he took the post of Secretary of the Archaeological Society of Athens, which he held until 1859": technically "which" here refers to the secretary, rather than the post; suggest "he became Secretary of the Archaeological Society of Athens, a post which he held until 1859".

That's everything from a read-through; all very minor. This is one of the best-written articles I've reviewed for GA; I had a hard time finding anything to complain about. I still have to do spotchecks on the sources, probably later today, and I'll review image licensing when you're through removing images. A very interesting article. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:47, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

All points addressed, and some work done on the images. It's still probably a bit over-illustrated in parts, but I think the images now left are valuable enough to make me hesitate about cleaving them out: I quite like the historic paintings and photographs as a before/after, and they do a good job of helping the audience to picture Pittakis' Athens, which is now lost and looked quite different to how it does today. Rangavis is in a crowded place, but he's quite a big character in the narrative and it's a good image, so it feels right to have his picture somewhere.

Probably a good time for another look? UndercoverClassicist (talk) 20:37, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Spotchecks. Footnote numbers refer to this version. I don't have access to any of these sources; can you quote the supporting text in each case?

• FN 3 cites "His family origins are obscure: he was likely from a humble background."
  • "Kyriakos Pittakis, a self-taught Athenian of humble origins..." UndercoverClassicist (talk) 19:45, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
• FN 54 cites "Rangavis soon resigned as co-editor, leaving Pittakis as effectively the sole writer of the journal until 1860."
  • Page number was slightly off (it's 21, not 22: now corrected): "Rangavis soon resigned from the editorial board, leaving Pittakis as sole editor until 1860". A further citation added, from the same author, to clarify that Pittakis also wrote practically all of it. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 19:45, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
• FN 14 cites "The story was first connected with Pittakis by his friend and rival Alexandros Rizos Rangavis in his eulogy for Pittakis after the latter's death in 1863."
  • A slightly lengthy discussion, which ends with (square brackets my comments): "the episode had seemingly lain dormant [from context, it's clear that Beresford is dismissing the idea that it ever happened at all] until first recorded [under Androutsos' name] in Valaoritis's letter of 1859, while Pittakis' role in the affair first became public knowledge when highlighted by Rangavis in 1863." UndercoverClassicist (talk) 19:45, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:15, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Images:

• File:Kyriakos Pittakis.jpg -- clearly PD but tagged only for Greece; it has no US PD tag. This is fine for GA but consider adding the appropriate tag.
• File:Dodwell Lion Gate.jpg -- same as above.
• File:Bonfils Pinax pre 1870.png -- conversely, this needs the tag for France. Again fine for GA but consider adding the appropriate tag.
• File:Alexandros Rizos Rangavis 1869.JPG -- same again, this time needing a tag for Greece.
  • All done. I can't find the original source of the Pittakis portrait: it's almost certainly his official portrait as Secretary of the Archaeological Society, and has probably been on the wall there since he was in office: it appears in original or derivative form in just about everything written about him, with no copyright notice or attribution. I'm not too worried about that, since it would be clear Fair Use even if it were in copyright. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 12:05, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

The spotchecks are OK, but because there were a couple of minor tweaks needed I'm going to ask for three more. Footnote numbers now refer to this version. Can you quote the supporting text? These spotchecks are now the only outstanding issue, though you may choose to fix the image tags mentioned above.

• FN 118 cites "pointing to his use of improvised material, including tree trunks, to restore the orthostates of the Erechtheion".
  • "To erect and consolidate the walls and columns, Pittakis used any material to hand, ancient fragments, unworked stone blocks, bricks, tiles, and even tree trunks (!)."
• FN 64 cites "In particular, Ludwig Ross criticised his clearing work in the Propylaea for failing to make any record of the later buildings he demolished."
  • "This very fact called forth the scepticism of Ross, however, who censured Pittakis’s haste, mainly for not making a rudimentary record of the finds."
• FN 13 cites "As a young man, Pittakis was a member of the nationalist Filiki Eteria".
  • "he was a member of that archetypal revolutionary organization, the Φιλικὴ Ἑταιρεία"

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:30, 21 April 2023 (UTC) --- In the course of looking around for image publications, I've found a couple of new Greek-language sources. They're both Petrakos, one way or another, so they won't change much of significance, but I'm going to work back into the article to add in what they have. You might want to hold off on final pass until that's done? UndercoverClassicist (talk) 12:05, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

The spotchecks above are fine. I'm ready to pass the article, but I can certainly hold off if you want me to. There's no need, though; articles at GA are still expected to undergo editing and improvement. Passing it now takes off any time pressure on you to work in the new material. Let me know which way you want to go. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:48, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

If you're happy, I'm happy; I agree that it's over the GA bar as it stands, and it's not going to expand in a way that would make the existing image and source checks need supplementation. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 13:04, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

That's what I thought. OK, passing; congratulations on a really enjoyable article. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:27, 22 April 2023 (UTC)