Talk:Abuwtiyuw

Abuwtiyuw is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.

This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on November 8, 2012.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
October 14, 2012	Good article nominee	Listed
November 3, 2012	Featured article candidate	Promoted

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on August 13, 2012.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that a dog was mummified and received a special burial?

Current status: Featured article

Dogs Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Dogs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Canidae and commonly referred to as "dogs" and of which the domestic dog is but one of its many members, on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DogsWikipedia:WikiProject DogsTemplate:WikiProject DogsDogs articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Dogs To-do:

Here are some tasks you can do to help with WikiProject Dogs:

Recent changes patrol: members can review the recent changes list to be aware of improvements or vandalism.
Expand and improve citations: Akita (dog), American Bully, Artois Hound, Azawakh, Barbet (dog), Basset Fauve de Bretagne, Bavarian Mountain Hound, Bearded Collie, Beauceron, Berger Picard, Black and Tan Terrier, Black Norwegian Elkhound, Border Collie, Border Terrier, Bouvier des Ardennes, Bouvier des Flandres, Braque du Bourbonnais, Brazilian Terrier, Briquet Griffon Vendéen, Brittany (dog), Bullenbeisser, Bull Terrier, Ca de Bou, Cairn Terrier, Cardigan Welsh Corgi, Campeiro Bulldog, Central Asian Shepherd Dog, Chilean Terrier, Chow Chow, Colombian Fino Hound, Corsican Dog, Cretan Hound, Croatian Sheepdog, Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, Danish Spitz, Dingo, Dobermann, Dogue Brasileiro, Dunker, East Siberian Laika, English Cocker Spaniel, English Foxhound, English Toy Terrier (Black & Tan), Erbi Txakur, Estonian Hound, Estrela Mountain Dog, Finnish Lapphund, Flat-coated Retriever, French Bulldog, Galgo Español, Gaucho sheepdog, German Hound, German Shepherd, German Wirehaired Pointer, Glen of Imaal Terrier, Gordon Setter, Great Dane, Greek Harehound, Griffon Bruxellois, Guatemalan Dogo, Gull Dong, Halden Hound, Hamiltonstövare, Hanover Hound, Havanese dog, Hokkaido (dog), Hovawart, Ibizan Hound, Icelandic Sheepdog, Indian Spitz, Irish Setter, Irish Terrier, Irish Water Spaniel, Istrian Coarse-haired Hound, Jagdterrier, Jämthund, Kai Ken, Karakachan dog, Karelian Bear Dog, Karst Shepherd, Keeshond, Kokoni, Kooikerhondje, Koolie, Kuchi dog, Kuvasz, Labrador Retriever, Large Münsterländer, Lucas Terrier, Magyar Agár, Miniature Bull Terrier, Miniature Fox Terrier, Mongrel, Mountain Cur, Northern Inuit Dog, Norwegian Elkhound, Norwich Terrier, Old Danish Pointer, Old English Bulldog, Old English Sheepdog, Pastor Garafiano, Pastore della Lessinia e del Lagorai, Patterdale Terrier, Pekingese, Perro Majorero, Peruvian Hairless Dog, Petit Basset Griffon Vendéen, Pharaoh Hound, Plummer Terrier, Plott Hound, Polish Greyhound, Porcelaine, Portuguese Water Dog, Pudelpointer, Rajapalayam dog, Rat Terrier, Saarloos wolfdog, Sabueso Español, Saint Miguel Cattle Dog, Šarplaninac, Schipperke, Serrano Bulldog, Shikoku dog, Skye Terrier, Sloughi, Slovak Cuvac, Small Münsterländer, Smithfield (dog), Smooth Collie, South Russian Ovcharka, Spanish Water Dog, Standard Schnauzer, Swedish Vallhund, Tatra Shepherd Dog, Terceira Mastiff, Thai Bangkaew Dog, Tibetan Mastiff, Tibetan spaniel, Tornjak, Weimaraner, Welsh Hound, Welsh Terrier, West Siberian Laika, Westphalian Dachsbracke, Xoloitzcuintle, Xigou
Stub class articles in need of development: Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog, Argentine pila dog, Armant (dog), Assyrian Mastiff, Banjara Hound, Billy (dog), Braque Dupuy, Bruno Jura Hound, Bulgarian Scenthound, Ca Rater Mallorquí, Calupoh, Campeiro Bulldog, Can de Chira, Cane Paratore, Cantabrian Water Dog, Chortai, Córdoba fighting dog, Denmark Feist, East European Shepherd, English Shepherd, Faroese Sheepdog, Gończy Polski, Grand Griffon Vendéen, Gull Dong, Hanover Hound, Hygen Hound, Japanese Terrier, Kaikadi (dog), Kars dog, Koyun dog, Kunming dog, Kurdish Mastiff, Levriero Sardo, Mahratta Hound, Majorca Ratter, Maneto, Markiesje, Molossus (dog), Montenegrin Mountain Hound, Rampur Greyhound, Romanian Mioritic Shepherd Dog, Sapsali, Sarabi dog, Schweizer Laufhund, Segugio Maremmano, Segugio dell'Appennino, Sinhala Hound, St. Hubert Jura Hound, Taigan, Tatra Shepherd Dog, Tazy, Toy Bulldog, Treeing Cur, Vikhan Sheepdog, Westphalian Dachsbracke, White Shepherd
Suggested Featured Articles due for re-assessment: Beagle (2007)
Suggested Good Articles due for re-assessment: Swift fox (2008); Cavalier King Charles Spaniel (2009); Clumber Spaniel (2009); Russian Spaniel (2009); Sussex Spaniel (2009)
Requested images: Briquet de Provence, Denmark Feist, Erbi Txakur, Jeju dog, Kaikadi (dog), Kars dog, Koyun dog, Levriero Sardo, Liangshan Dog, Perdigueiro Galego, Segugio dell'Appennino, St. Hubert Jura Hound, Tarsus çatalburun, Tibetan Kyi Apso, Vikhan Sheepdog, Villanuco de Las Encartaciones

Ancient Egypt Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ancient Egypt, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Egyptological subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ancient EgyptWikipedia:WikiProject Ancient EgyptTemplate:WikiProject Ancient EgyptAncient Egypt articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Ancient Egypt to-do list:

Needed articles.

We should have an article on every pyramid and every nome in Ancient Egypt. I'm sure the rest of us can think of other articles we should have.

Cleanup.

To start with, most of the general history articles badly need attention. And I'm told that at least some of the dynasty articles need work. Any other candidates?

Standardize the Chronology.

A boring task, but the benefit of doing it is that you can set the dates !(e.g., why say Khufu lived 2589-2566? As long as you keep the length of his reign correct, or cite a respected source, you can date it 2590-2567 or 2585-2563)

Stub sorting

Anyone? I consider this probably the most unimportant of tasks on Wikipedia, but if you believe it needs to be done . . .

Data sorting.

This is a project I'd like to take on some day, & could be applied to more of Wikipedia than just Ancient Egypt. Take one of the standard authorities of history or culture -- Herotodus, the Elder Pliny, the writings of Breasted or Kenneth Kitchen, & see if you can't smoothly merge quotations or information into relevant articles. Probably a good exercise for someone who owns one of those impressive texts, yet can't get access to a research library.

question

What does this sentence mean? "Whether the grave nor the mummy of the dog survived." --Green Cardamom (talk) 06:10, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It means that whether the grave nor the mummy of the dog remained. Survived can be used here, too. Regards.--Kürbis (✔) 08:05, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry.. still don't understand. Can you say it using different words, so I understand the intended meaning? I believe you may be using "whether" and "nor" incorrectly, the sentence doesn't make sense. Are you saying the grave survived but the mummy of the dog did not? Green Cardamom (talk) 06:21, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Whether" is usually used to present two alternatives "whether A or B", but not "whether A nor B". Is it possible you mean "or" instead of "nor"? Also, "whether" is asking a question so it needs a resolution, such as "Whether the grave or the mummy of the dog survived is unknown" (if that is the intended meaning). Green Cardamom (talk) 06:30, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Is it possible instead of "Whether" you mean "Neither"? That would make sense. I'll be bold and make the change. Green Cardamom (talk) 21:20, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, you are right... I often confuse the two words. "Neither" is correct. (this is because "whether" sounds like "weder" in German, which translates as "neither"...) Regards.--Kürbis (✔) 21:22, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ok another question.. it says "There is a part of a lead visible on the upper-right corner" .. is this a leash? I'll change it because I think leash is more common and clear. Green Cardamom (talk) 14:29, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yep :) Regards.--Kürbis (✔) 21:10, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wiggle huggy 116.14.135.48 (talk) 13:51, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hieroglyphs

I'm no expert in hieroglyphs, but the representation of the name doesn't look right. The characters in the article would be transliterated, I think, ‘bwt3, while the correct transliteration in Reisner, p. 97, is ‘bwtiw. So I think the first three (arm & hand, leg & foot, quail) are correct, the eagle should be a quail, and before the eagle should be one or two other characters (which are not clear in Reisner's image). Thoughts? ADAMGARRIGUS talk 00:42, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The characters in the article look like ‘bw3; I don't even see a glyph for T. Based on Reisner's transliteration, I'd expect

. I'd expect a dog determinative (

) at the end, too. But my understanding of hieroglyphs is limited, and it's a very complicated system with lots of exceptions to rules. Unless you can find a legible copy of the name as it appears in the inscriptions, the name isn't properly verifiable, and I'd advise leaving out the hieroglyph box. A. Parrot (talk) 18:07, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A photograph of the hieroglyphs can be found in Reisners publication, [1], therfore

is correct The hieroglyph

transcribes as tjw. The alternative reading ‘bw3 with a

instead of

was suggested by Jozef Janssen, which is not implaussible, as ‘bw3 is also known as a personal name. A determinative is here not neccesary, as the sentence, where the name is mentioned, explicitely talks about a ṯsm (dog). --GDK (talk) 11:22, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the clarification, GDK. ADAMGARRIGUS talk 20:16, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Rename article to Abuwtiyuw

I would strongly suggest to rename the article Abuwtiyuw, as Abutiu is the German transcription. The english literature uses the Transcription Abuwtiyuw provided by Reisner. --GDK (talk) 11:28, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Treatment of dogs

The Background section is a little weak - the description of the Persians' relationship with dogs is not quite described in Herodotus as the source states - he does mention dogs when discussing the Persians but only mentions that the Magi don't kill them. They were protected, but chapters 13-15 here may be more helpful (chapter 14 is on otters which were considered water dogs, so slightly less is pertinent, but chapter 15 is interesting for the fact it intermingles pronouncements on the treatment of dogs and humans). The description of the Egyptians' treatment of dogs is cited to three sources, the first is reprint of a 1908 encyclopedia (wrongly cited as 2001) which merely reports Herodotus, the second only mentions that the Egyptians had collars for their dogs so isn't relevant to the sentence it is used to support, and the third appears to be a children's encyclopedia which it seems strange to use for evidence of mummification when you have the more robust Salima Ikram source later. Yomangani ^talk 00:18, 21 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well spotted, can you assist with this?♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:43, 21 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not immediately (unfortunately it's more time consuming to track down sources than to point out potential problems - probably something to do with entropy, I'm not going to argue with physics). That section really needs restructuring as the assertions are vague - "According to the Ancient Greeks" and "others of the Near East" - and some of the later observations are slightly precarious too: the reference to the mummified dog in Ikram is to a single case, so the extension of this to multiple cases needs additional support, and I'm not sure that we know what the intention behind the dog mummification was, the invoking of Anubis to reunite the the dog with the owner is cited to the same children's encyclopedia as used previously. The sentence "Many animals were typically consumed as meat after death, but it is highly unlikely that dogs would have been eaten" is part of an argument about possible reasons for animal mummies consisting of wrapped bones and I don't know what it adds here divorced from that context.

A couple of other points:

Is the graphics lab still a going concern? An image of the tablet inscription would make a nice project for somebody with artistic leanings (presumably the expedition's photo is not PD yet)
The 2280 BC date seems a little off - the tablet was in the spolia used to construct a mastaba around 2280 BC, so the original chapel of the dog's owner is likely to have stood for a few years before that and the dog's tablet to have been installed earlier still. Why do the sources give that date?
"Mohammedani Ibrahim, who took more than 9,321 large-format glass-plate images" That's a very precise number to add "more than" in front of. Yomangani ^talk 02:51, 22 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Exceptionally good points again, yes so it would have had to have been between 2280 and 2345 BC. Before 2280 BC should suffice☠ Count de Blofeld 07:57, 22 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Afterlife for dogs

I pointed out an issue at the FAC (here, second bullet point) that wasn't resolved. I realize it was a lengthy and complicated comment and may seem like disproportionate attention to a single sentence in the article. But I think the issue really needs to be addressed, as the sentence in its current state is misleading. If the regular editors here don't have sources to address the issue of afterlife beliefs about animals (I'm fairly sure I don't), then the sentence could simply be removed. The inscription seems to make it fairly clear that this particular dog was going to the afterlife, so this article doesn't need to address the general issue to be comprehensive. A. Parrot (talk) 23:22, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the sentence per my statement on my talk page. Regards.--Tomcat (7) 09:43, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

sex of the dog?

How is the sex of the dog known? This is a rather glaring omission or presupposition. μηδείς (talk) 03:39, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It might have been described in a primary source, but the article doesn't explain this in any detail. Jarble (talk) 18:33, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please read the inscription under Discovery. Regards.--Tomcat (7) 20:12, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Image gallery

I hope the photos and images that i added would be beneficial.--Ashashyou (talk) 19:24, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No, since this is about one individual dog. Regards.--Tomcat (7) 20:09, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation

On page three of Bulletin of the Museum of Fine Arts, we see a transliteration of the heiroglyphs |bwti|w (Where vertical lines represent glottal stops), giving us a pronunciation guide. I think this should be added to the article. --Sue Rangell^{[citation needed]} 04:54, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with this above comment by Sue Rangell (talk · contribs), could we please get some sort of pronunciation guide added to this article? Thank you, — Cirt (talk) 06:59, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I, too, would like to see the pronunciation. AmericanLeMans (talk) 16:01, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And me... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.242.122 (talk) 17:52, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The name sound sort of like the phrase "I bit you". Weird. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.69.214.197 (talk) 06:57, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

True :).--Tomcat (7) 09:41, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If any of the Egyptian experts who wrote this article are reading this, could they possibly give a quick explanation as to why such a weird, virtually unpronounceable romanisation of the hieroglyphs is preferred? The alternative 'Abutiu', which seems to have been deprecated above, is perfectly readable, and I don't understand how inserting ys and ws could aid comprehension. --81.132.30.124 (talk) 08:20, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It is from Reisner. --Tomcat (7) 20:11, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a layman. That means nothing to me. Why did Reisner add those ys and ws in the middle? --109.157.24.215 (talk) 22:28, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am no expert on Egyptology, but it is a bit of a hobby. If I had to pronounce it, my money would be on Uh-bwit-Ew, with the capital letters pronounced hard, due to the glottal-stops. I think it would be a great addition to the article.--Sue Rangell^{[citation needed]} 23:09, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

How did the Germans come up with such a different pronunciation? The IPA seems like WP:OR to me.--Curtis Clark (talk) 03:46, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

IPA pronounciation

The IPA as it stands is a bit off. It's not clear how, in ʔ-bwit-ʔew, one is meant to pronounce the initial glottal stop - it still needs to have a vowel accompanying it to make sense. Working from Reisner's transliteration of ‘bwtἰw, which in MdC would be something like abwtjw, then the conventional IPA should be either a:bwti:w or a:bu:ti:w. I'll change it if there are no objections. Wasechun tashunka^HOWL_TRACK 18:58, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

WP:URFA/2020

Marking as satisfactory, although the identification as possibly a sighthound is only found in the lead and isn't verified/cited. Hopefully this will be addressed. Hog Farm _Talk 06:19, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Hog Farm: dealt with; identification provided by one of the cited sources. Added to the body and cited. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 06:39, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]