Talk:polis

Pronunciation

For the city-state definition, the IPA and the engPR do not match up for the first vowel. Is one or the other correct? Or perhaps there are two competing pronunciations? (I came specifically to figure this one out, it's not a word I've ever used in speech)

Scots Noun

According to the http://www.dsl.ac.uk/ the Scots word for Police is Police, its pronunciation is Polis. Should this have a section under the word "Polis", or merely a pronunciation guide under Police?

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The nominal senses we have are not listed in The Dictionary of the Scots Language. † ﴾^(u):Raifʻhār ^(t):Doremítzwr﴿ 19:29, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

That's their omission and not our concern! We are not a mirror of any other dictionary! I've no doubts about the validity (one needs only to watch "Taggert" on UK TV), but I suppose we can find some Scottish dialect in UK novels if really necessary? Of course, most words described as "Scottish" are just eye dialect for an alternative pronunciation of normal English words, but we seem to regard all the others as part of a "separate language", so why not polis? Dbfirs 22:21, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

... later ... Yes, I see why Doremítzwr questioned this - the Greek usage is difficult to filter out in Google books, but the following should suffice:

1. 1902, The unspeakable Scot by Thomas William Hodgson Crosland‎ - Page 3

   ... if you begin to beat a Scot, he will assuredly bawl, in the King's name, for the law. "Hech, sirs, rin for the polis. Ah 'm gettin' whupped!

2. 1972, Scottish international, Volume 5‎ - Page 25

   If Gullan was fause, the polis wad be expecting three or fower men ...

3. 1990, Scot-free: new Scottish plays‎ by Alasdair Cameron - Page 209

   ... when he dies 'n' he's goat her name doon tae jine the polis when she leaves school.

They're not brilliant examples, but I could find better with a more thorough search. This raises the question of whether we should include eye dialect for other regions. Where do we stop? Dbfirs 22:42, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Their omission from that dictionary is not a reason for us to do the same, but it does give me legitimate grounds to request their direct attestation when included by this project. This term needs to be attested in a Scots context, not just an eye-dialect English one; given the close relation of Scots to English, this distinction may not be very clear. As such, attestation in works written entirely in Scots may be the only sure way to handle this term. † ﴾^(u):Raifʻhār ^(t):Doremítzwr﴿ 03:03, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

In fact they are in the DSL, they're just listed under the headword (deprecated template usage) police (among other spelling forms) - remember that the DSL shows Scottish English as well as Scots, and "police" is still the most common spelling in Scotland. In Scotland, people regularly pronounce it POE-liss, especially colloquially, and the spelling "polis" is generally used by Scottish writers to show that. Ƿidsiþ 10:29, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

I see. Am I to take it then, that the nominal senses should be listed under a separate etymology header as an alternative spelling of police? † ﴾^(u):Raifʻhār ^(t):Doremítzwr﴿ 02:31, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

... and should we do the same for hundreds of other "Scots" words that are just alternative spellings of English? The problem stems, I suppose, from the recognition of an English dialect as a separate language. Where do we draw the line? Dbfirs 09:15, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

I don’t care what Scots spellings we lemmatise for what words. These different senses of polis are etymological distinct; therefore, that ought to be noted in the entry. † ﴾^(u):Raifʻhār ^(t):Doremítzwr﴿ 15:54, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Do you mean distinct from the Greek word? If so, then I fully agree. Sorry if I misunderstood. Dbfirs 22:03, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

I meant this. † ﴾^(u):Raifʻhār ^(t):Doremítzwr﴿ 22:44, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Ah, yes, I propose that we delete the separate French etymology. It is highly unlikely that the word developed from independent sources in adjacent regions having the same dialect. Dbfirs 13:10, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Why should that be so unlikely? What else are homographs? The two kernels of meaning are distinct enough to convince me that the two words have distinct etymological roots. † ﴾^(u):Raifʻhār ^(t):Doremítzwr﴿ 03:31, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

• I've now cited it thrice and am striking the request. Ƿidsiþ 17:46, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Created entry for surname

Created entry for surname, at Polis. Perhaps someone can help research the Etymology? That'd be most appreciated, -- Cirt (talk) 10:21, 11 February 2012 (UTC)