Wikidata:Property proposal/alternate universe counterpart

alternate universe counterpart

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Creative work

   Done: alternate universe counterpart (P11799) (Talk and documentation)

Description	this fictional character/entity is an alternate universe counterpart of the subject
Data type	Item
Domain	fictional entity (Q14897293)
Allowed values	fictional entity (Q14897293)
Example 1	Rosalind Lutece (Q116455427) → Robert Lutece (Q116455425)
Example 2	Power Girl (Q948668) → Supergirl (Q3832603)
Example 3	Walternate (Q6166309) → Walter Bishop (Q2720022)
Robot and gadget jobs	Ensure that all uses of this are mirrored: i.e. if A is an AU counterpart of B, B should be an AU counterpart of A.

Motivation

Establish connections between distinct characters who are considered alternate universe counterparts within the narrative of their work. Currently there is no sensible way of representing this relation, the closest thing being based on (P144) which is not really accurate. This would only be applicable to fictional items which take place in a narrative which has a multiverse or some equivalent to it. A restriction should probably be placed to ensure that universes (or "earths" as they are known in DC and Marvel comics) themselves are not marked as AU variants of each other, such as Earth-616 (Q2246088) and Marvel Cinematic Universe (Q642878), as this would spiral out of control in terms of scope. OmegaFallon (talk) 21:37, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

•  Comment On how many items are we expecting this property to be used, roughly? Jean-Fred (talk) 00:41, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
  •  Comment Off the top of my head I can't name very many examples. But, conversely I am also not the most knowledgeable about comics and other forms of media that tend in the multiverse direction. So, really I can't say. A few dozen, at least? It might be beneficial for someone to compile a list. OmegaFallon (talk) 00:57, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
•  Weak support --Tinker Bell ★ ♥ 19:46, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
•  Weak support Leaning towards support, but waiting for other opinions: This is quite specific but I don't know how to express this otherwise. As I don't really edit items from / about multiverses pinging a bunch of projects to get more opinions/suggestions. (Maybe someone of these projects may estimate for how many items this would be needed):

• TomT0m Valentina.Anitnelav Shisma (talk) ElanHR Arlo Barnes (talk) Maria zaos (talk) EEMIV (talk) OmegaFallon (talk) Kurzov (talk) dseomn (talk) Natureshadow (talk)
  Notified participants of WikiProject Fictional universes
• ACKlose Arlo Barnes B bradley26 John Dickson04 MSwierenga Sandrileine Thematthewmurray Tophkate Justin.wigard
  Notified participants of WikiProject Comics
• Valentina.Anitnelav Thierry Caro Shisma Arlo Barnes Tsaorin SilentSpike Maxime জয়শ্রীরাম সরকার Wolverène Rampant Spirit Rtnf dseomn lijil
  Notified participants of WikiProject Narration - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 11:52, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

  Thanks for reviving this. I made this proposal before I found out about pinging and forgot to ever go back and add some OmegaFallon (talk) 11:56, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

•  Weak support I guess this could be used for the Mirror Universe (Q674612) and the Kelvin Timeline (Q47164023). I tried to keep the characters as a single entity so far but in some cases it just seems nonsensical –Shisma (talk) 12:31, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

 Question Why inspired by (P941) do not work for the examples that you present? 2A01:CB14:D52:1200:38A4:5F1F:6E0A:695C 14:50, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

• In my opinion inspired by (P941) is not appropriate to capture this relationship:

1) inspired by (P941) takes an out-of-universe perspective (stating what an author/creative team influenced in creating this character). But this is about an in-universe relationship (meaning the narrative universe of a work/franchise as a whole - including, in the case of a multiverse, all alternative universes).

2) not every character inspired by something is an alternative universe counterpart of it. Beth March (Q84708528) may be inspired by Elizabeth Sewall Alcott (Q5363492) but she is not an alternate universe counterpart.

3) it is not even necessary for a character to be inspired by another character to be an alternative universe counterpart of them: According to en:Lutece_twins Rosalind Lutece and Robert Lutece had been created together.

One property that comes to my mind that could capture this relationship is significant person (P3342) with a fitting object of statement has role (P3831) qualifier (alternative universe alter ego?) - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 15:52, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

That actually might work, but I would still prefer an individual property for this. OmegaFallon (talk) 14:02, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

•  Comment Example 3 should be removed. Although Gwenpool visually resembles Deadpool and Gwen Stacy, she is not a version of either character. She's an unrelated person named Gwen Poole. John Dickson04 (talk) 16:36, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

  Done, thank you. OmegaFallon (talk) 14:03, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

•  Support I find this property important for modeling. --Gymnicus (talk) 09:12, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

   Support Yes, there area really layers in fictional universes. Tsaorin (talk) 12:36, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

• @OmegaFallon, Jean-Frédéric, Tinker Bell, Valentina.Anitnelav, Shisma, John Dickson04: @Gymnicus, Tsaorin:
  TomT0m Valentina.Anitnelav Shisma (talk) ElanHR Arlo Barnes (talk) Maria zaos (talk) EEMIV (talk) OmegaFallon (talk) Kurzov (talk) dseomn (talk) Natureshadow (talk)
  Notified participants of WikiProject Fictional universes
  ACKlose Arlo Barnes B bradley26 John Dickson04 MSwierenga Sandrileine Thematthewmurray Tophkate Justin.wigard
  Notified participants of WikiProject Comics
  Valentina.Anitnelav Thierry Caro Shisma Arlo Barnes Tsaorin SilentSpike Maxime জয়শ্রীরাম সরকার Wolverène Rampant Spirit Rtnf dseomn lijil
  Notified participants of WikiProject Narration  Done as alternate universe counterpart (P11799). AdamSeattle (talk) 05:20, 29 May 2023 (UTC)