HTGS

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Redirect Closure (sociology)

Hello. I see that you've blanked the redirect, apparently with the edit summary that you were deleting the redirect. However, please be noted that blanking a redirect is not tantamount into deleting the redirect, and that deletions must be either deleted through speedy deletions if it fits one of the criterion of WP:CSD or discussion in WP:RFD. Plus, since this was a redirect from a move, I've restored the redirect for now. If you have any questions or comments, please leave a message on my talk page. Thanks. KJ ^{«Click Here»} 03:45, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

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Categories in Wikipedia

@HTGS: I'm less than expert in WP categories but I know some editors care a lot about them. You have decided what constitutes a food and drink company of New Zealand. I think you must state at the top of the category page how you define the category. Don't you? Eddaido (talk) 02:44, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

@Eddaido, I actually thought the category was quite straightforward. Can you explain which pages you're thinking about in particular? I've just changed a whole handful, but I wouldn't have thought any were controversial—it's possible I've made a mistake though. — HTGS (talk) 03:06, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Well, you would wouldn't you. Please would you state what you believe to be a food and drink company of new zealand. NZ makes food and drink for export, that is to say: meat and butter and milk. How do you imagine it would be able to buy all those cars if it did not? Eh? Eddaido (talk) 03:17, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Frankly, I don't entirely understand your point. I am happy to add a brief description to the category page, but then, so could you, so I'm not sure why you're asking me to do it? If I add something like, New Zealand companies which are involved in the production or sale of food and beverages, I don't see that as adding much more guidance than the category title already implies, and as I said, it's not like it's a complicated or controversial category. — HTGS (talk) 03:27, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

You have chosen to change the use of the category. You need to explain what you have done. I do recognise you are functioning under a pseudonym and you probably see yourself as highly ranked in the hierarchy BUT you must tell us what YOU think belongs in that category. Please. Eddaido (talk) 03:33, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Eddaido, pretend I'm brand spanking new to Wikipedia, and explain to me what you think is wrong with my recent edits. I'm seriously open to criticism, but I don't see how my edits aren't perfectly in line with Wikipedia guidance and policy. I'm also not sure at all who you think "us" is, nor where or why I would explain myself to you all. Otherwise go do something productive elsewhere. — HTGS (talk) 03:48, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

It occurs to me that you may not understand how subcategories work. I recently moved some pages out of Category:Food and drink companies of New Zealand, and into a subcategory. This does not remove them from the food and drink category, as the subcats (eg, Category:Beverage companies of New Zealand) are wholly contained by the supercategory. In this sense, I have not changed the "use of the category", but merely rearranged and corrected some categorisations. Let me know if this helps. — HTGS (talk) 04:05, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Here we seem to have many immigrants of high ability with a poor understanding of how this country works. Some long time ago someone quite rationally put a meat / freezing company into that particular category and now you have removed it. Why did you remove it?

Now, by your same token why should Qwirkle explain himself to anyone at all? He will go on forever.

Look at all the havoc he is created on my work over the past three years.

Thank God you are giving him some attention. Eddaido (talk) 10:26, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

You think I’m an immigrant? Shoot straight, Eddaido. I don’t have time to argue with you if you don’t make yourself clear.

I don't know, are you an immigrant? I don't think I said you are an immigrant. You don't shoot straight do you.Eddaido (talk) 03:44, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Nelson brothers? That company is still categorised as meat processing, which is a subcat of food manufacturing, which itself is a subcat of food and drink companies. It’s still a food and drink company, it’s just listed more specifically. We don’t list things as both felines and mammals. One (the more specific) is enough.

I hope you’re not making presumptions of ownership. You don’t seem to have made huge efforts to reach consensus on at least Roi-des-Belges. I can only guess that the two of you haven’t really discussed much elsewhere. — HTGS (talk) 20:58, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

It seems I upset Quirkle years ago and he has become, as his mind further deteriorates, a kind of desperate crab on my toe. Important people like yourself can use a bit of software within WP and see our hundreds of interactions. i.e. those of me and quirkle. He doesn't stop until thinks I've let him win. Eddaido (talk) 03:44, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

New message from DFW FAA Brianvators

Hello, HTGS. You have new messages at QuarioQuario54321's talk page.
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Image

Hi HTGS, The image you removed from the article Gender bias on Wikipedia is published by the author with a CC-BY-SA license, please look at the source https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/14614448211023772 . Thats why I reverted your removal. Regards, Ellywa (talk) 07:09, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks a bunch. I did actually check the paper, thinking they might have released their figures, but couldn’t see anything about them being cc licensed (I still can’t even find it now lol, but I believe you). — HTGS (talk) 10:14, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. The publishing website is full of logos, but if you know where to look the ccby logo is at the top right. Thanks to ms. Tripodi. Ellywa (talk) 11:15, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

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Thanks!

Thank you for restoring my revision on iPad Air 2 article. Because you are an extended confirmed user for over 10 years, I was strongly recommend you to request adminship. Guest Kashapov (talk) 13:13, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

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Your signature

Please be aware that your signature uses deprecated <font> tags, which are causing Obsolete HTML tags lint errors. As explained at WP:SIGFONT:

<font>...</font> tags were deprecated in HTML4 and are entirely obsolete in HTML5. This means that the popular browsers may drop support for them at some point. Wikipedia is already preparing for this by delinting code project-wide through Linter. When support finally is dropped, the tags will be ignored in all signatures; any properties such as color and font family will revert to their default values. For this reason, it is recommended that you use <span>...</span> tags and CSS properties instead.

I have prepared a replacement signature string for you. You are encouraged to change

<font face="Avenir, Tenorite, Verdana, sans-serif">—&nbsp;<span style="border-radius:0.25em;padding:1px 4px 0;background:#faededAF">[[User:HTGS|HTGS]]</span>&nbsp;([[User talk:HTGS|talk]])</font> : — HTGS (talk)

to

<span style="font-family:Avenir, Tenorite, Verdana, sans-serif">—&nbsp;<span style="border-radius:0.25em;padding:1px 4px 0;background:#faededAF">[[User:HTGS|HTGS]]</span>&nbsp;([[User talk:HTGS|talk]])</span> : — HTGS (talk)

—Anomalocaris (talk) 20:31, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, Anomalocaris! I've changed it now. (I'm sure at one point I used those tags for length, but that's clearly not important as it is.) — HTGS (talk) 21:47, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

And thank you for updating your signature! You're right, HTML5-compliant markup is sometimes a little longer than non-HTML5-compliant markup. Your signature still has some "head room", though, as your signature markup is now 208 characters, and the limit is 255 characters. —Anomalocaris (talk) 22:40, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

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WP:NCNZ

Discussion of another user's conduct is always off-topic if it isn't posted on WP:ANI or the user's talk page. Common on the content of the arguments, not the conduct of the people who said them. See:

• WP:NPA (Similarly, discussion of a user's conduct or history is not in itself a personal attack when done in the appropriate forum for such discussion (for example, the other editor's talk page, or Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents)
• WP:ASPERSIONS (Legitimate concerns of fellow editors' conduct should be raised either directly with the editor in question, in a civil fashion, or if necessary on an appropriate noticeboard or dispute-resolution page)

Your comment besmirched my reputation. It accused me of doing something that you find improper. Do not post such comments on pages other than WP:ANI or user talk pages. If you had an issue with my closing those moves, you should have brought it up on my talk page, as is described in detail by Wikipedia:Move review. If you had an issue with my commenting on that RfC, likewise, you should have brought it up on my talk page. — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 04:16, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

It was not my intention to make accusations of "misbehaviour" so much as to mention specific actions you took relating to the case at hand. I certainly didn't wander over to unrelated pages, calling you names or accusing you of crimes, with or without evidence, with or without intention of besmirching your name. As you stated, my comment verged on aspersions, but in my (biased) opinion, it did not step over that line.

Either way, I'm not here to play internet games with you. We both have better ways to spend our time. — HTGS (talk) 05:01, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

Question regarding restoring Wiki page

Hello, I am new to Wikipedia so am not sure how to go about doing this. Please redirect me if this is the wrong place. A while ago the Wikipedia page for the Triggernometry podcast was changed into a redirect to the Wiki page for one of the podcast hosts. However, there are now a larger number of articles which reference and talk about the podcast. There is also more evidence of the impact it has had. What is the method for restoring the page with the additional new evidence? Cheers. Jschanna7 (talk) 11:43, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Jschanna7. Can you list some of those more reliable sources here? — HTGS (talk) 00:22, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

Sure, here are a few examples. Here's an example of the impact - the podcast is growing in popularity as a way to hear opinions they likely won't hear from traditional sources. Here's a link showing the podcast has been a way to guests to gain a larger following and change the public conversation about race. Here's a link where a prominent British journalist claims the podcast is being shadowbanned by YouTube. Here's another link about shadowbanning. Is this what you had in mind? Cheers, J. Jschanna7 (talk) 21:15, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't see an undelete review being successful with those sources. It's worth taking your time to review the general notability guidelines. We would need (a) multiple sources that are (b) generally accepted as reliable (the Daily Mail has been counted out on that), which constitute (c) "significant coverage" of the topic and are (d) independent of the topic.

• The Conservative Home source doesn't meet (b) or (c).
• iNews doesn't meet (c) and possibly doesn't meet (b).
• The Daily Mail opinion piece doesn't meet (b), and definitely doesn't meet (d). It probably wouldn't be enough for (c) either tbh.
• The Spiked source doesn't meet (c), and may or may not meet any of the others, but overall there isn't nearly enough here to constitute (a).

Hope this helps. Do let me know if you find more coverage, especially where it covers the podcast itself.

Cheers — HTGS (talk) 21:48, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Cheers for the heads up, will be in touch in the future :) Jschanna7 (talk) 07:40, 26 October 2021 (UTC).

Hi, I have now come across some coverage of the podcast from reputable sources, as defined by Wikipedia. Jschanna7 (talk) 20:09, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

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Dual names in lede

Mōrena HTGS – I'm reaching out mainly in response to your recent edit on Ashley River / Rakahuri, but obviously it's in the context of similar edits on dual names which we've engaged on in the past. Rather than go through our usual cycle on this, I figured it might be more productive to get in touch directly and try figure out if there's some way to resolve this impasse, noting that there was already consensus for just using the dual name in these cases due to the overlap? Turnagra (talk) 19:47, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Kia ora, Turnagra. I have to say, I feel so much happier talking to you when not in the context of argument, or maybe it’s just not in front of other people—strange what a subtle difference makes, huh? We should get a drink sometime. I’ll buy. And I mean that genuinely, not just as something to say politely. I’m in Dunedin, and I get the feeling you’re in the South Island too? (Just based on edits, but that’s pretty much just a hunch..) I don’t travel as much as I used to, but there’s good chance we both end up on the same whenua at some point, so let me know. You can email me too, if you prefer that discretion on personal location etc (Special:EmailUser/HTGS). A couple of zealots like us should get on like a house on fire, right? hahaha 😅

I didn’t have much say in that conversation on lead sentences, mostly because I generally view that sort of ruling-from-on-high as a bad approach to Wikipedia (though I admit wiki governance philosophy is a complex beast, and you’ll probably find confusing that statement in relation to my adoration for much of our high level policy). As you’re also aware, I also didn’t see enough consensus in that particular conversation to suggest that we always structure the lead sentence the same way. There are enough different places with different naming histories that I don’t see a one-size-fits-all approach as sensible—an approach that I have an aversion to in many contexts of Wikipedia. (Actually, maybe it’s clearer to say that I don’t like the prediction aspect of that sort of ruling.)

For leads, I generally want to give the reader more context, rather than less. And so for the specific example at hand—and it is a good example for many (but not necessarily even most) other NZ places: my take is that we should let the reader know the common name, the Māori name, and the official name. The structure I prefer is to lead with the common name (which is undisputed in the case of the Ashley), then give the Māori name in parentheses, followed by the official name. This way the reader can understand the context for the dual name (that it is from component Māori and English names). I do not assume our readers are from New Zealand, nor that they understand what Māori is, so giving the Māori name establishes both the importance of the language for our land, and the source of this funny-looking word. They have the link to Māori for more information on the language, and the {{lang}} tag will (one day) allow speech readers to pronounce Rakahuri correctly for those who cannot (or choose not to) read the text visually from a screen. The setup with the Māori then the dual name also avoids putting part of the dual name into a lang tag, so we don’t have to argue about whether Rakahuri as a component of the dual name is part of English yet.

I am flexible though, and I could see some places better suited to have the dual name out of the parenthetical, or some might suggest that the whole thing is messy, and better suited to an end footnote. Personally I dislike that solution for places with only a couple of names though, as it relegates what I see as important naming information to the end of the article… but that’s just a personal take.

You’ve probably noticed I have changed a few leads, but I haven’t made a concerted campaign of it; where the common name is clearly the dual name a different structure will be needed, and maybe the dual-name-alone is the right one there. I try not to predict that from on high—see that Aussie RFC for more of my attitude against these sort of blanket rulings (because I’m sure you SoOo love reading more of my spouting on haha). — HTGS (talk) 00:09, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, same to you – I'm normally Pōneke-based, but I'm down south a fair bit (not usually as far south as you though, unfortunately!) Feel free to hit me up if you ever find yourself in the capital.

As for your points, I can totally see where you're coming from (especially in that wiki governance is near-incomprehensible). The main reason why I figured it'd be better to get a WPNZ-level consensus on this, at the very least, was that it seems we (by which I mean the wider we, not just the two of us – even if it is us more often than not) end up having the exact same conversation on multiple pages, which absolutely gets tiring. Dual names seemed to me to be a nice, discrete little group where you could have some clear criteria to get a consistent approach across the set and save having to relitigate it every time.

I also absolutely agree that it's worth giving people context, but I wonder whether it's more confusing to have each part of the name repeated twice (on its own and as part of the dual name) than it would be to just have the dual name in the lede, and then an expanded name section further below? As to your point about the lang tag, I don't necessarily have an issue with that (especially if it's along the lines of the one on the dual name portion of Clutha River / Mata-Au's lede), as that can be done in a way which is fairly unobtrusive and still helps people less familiar with it. I feel like this sort of approach could be useful for some of the other Māori-origin words which have been adopted by NZ English (eg. having the first mention of Pākehā or iwi on a page with the same unobtrusive Māori-language thing, even though they're widely-used in NZ English.

I can definitely see instances where it'd be useful to have multiple names there too, particularly where there are names not captured by the dual name. One that comes to mind would be Te Hauturu-o-Toi / Little Barrier Island, which is frequently known in Māori just as Hauturu, or The Pyramid / Tarakoikoia, which also has the Moriori name of Tcharako. So yeah, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I definitely agree that there's a need for some degree of nuance, but also that a base level of consensus would probably save a great deal of time and hassle (not to mention likely prolong my life a bit!) Turnagra (talk) 06:38, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Ok, so as you might gather, my concern is that such a guideline about the lead sentence has great potential to end up over-applied, misinterpreted or just deliberately mis-applied like NCNZ did (where interpretation allowed for any use of the dual name to mean that the given page should sit at the dual name). As that guideline was in opposition to COMMONNAME, I fear that your suggested guideline will be in opposition to ALTNAMES.

But, in the interest of momentum, let's imagine the smallest, least-problematic guideline I might agree to. Let's say that when the dual name is certainly the most common name and there are no other significant names in Māori or Moriori (or similar cases), we put the dual name alone in the lead. I might agree to that, but rare are the cases where the English (or older) portions of the dual name aren't still in very common use, so it feels misrepresentative to list the dual name, not telling readers what the place is (also) commonly called. Even you will admit that Aoraki / Mount Cook is very frequently called Mount Cook, surely? And it still omits the Māori language name and link to Māori, which are (at least) informative to foreigners.

Of course this all comes back again to our different takes on the encyclopaedia. I can't discern your exact reasoning or motives, but your actions almost always read as “dual names and dual names only”. I'm sure I don't need to tell you this, but I really dislike this take. I'm for Wikipedia representing the world as it is, and I'm for giving people the full picture (when possible). The vast majority of New Zealanders don't use dual names. That certainly doesn't mean they shouldn't be on Wikipedia. Similar for Australian places: I definitely want the indigenous names—and dual names—listed, but I don't want them used in place of the names English speakers actually use. — HTGS (talk) 04:45, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

I think this is the crux of the difference in our takes, as I don't see using the dual name exclusively in the lede as omitting the other names – with Aoraki / Mount Cook for instance, both Aoraki and Mount Cook are still there. Using it in these contexts prevents awkward and repetitive sentences like "Aoraki / Mount Cook (Māori: Aoraki), also known as Mount Cook". I can appreciate your rationale for including that information, but I feel as though there is a more elegant solution to its inclusion than that. We talked in that NZNC discussion about having a naming section for places with bigger articles, while that information could also be covered through sentences in the lede as well.

One of the issues I see with this whole furore has been that there are a few different aspects of the discussion which each have their own nuances. The discussion about dual names as titles is different to the one about dual names in the lede, which are both different to the use of dual names in the body. My general approach to the latter is similar to how I think it generally works in practice - once the dual name has been established, I tend to use either name interchangeably or whichever is more appropriate (eg. the Māori name when discussing pre-European history, or the English name at the time of the events being discussed).

For the lede, it's pretty much what I described above in that the dual name alone (with a brief explanation in the lede or a more fulsome one in the body) is a far cleaner way of presenting the information, and less confusing than someone without context wondering why there are three names there, two of them repeated. As for the titles, the long and short of it is that I don't see any downside to having them. I do think you're underestimating the amount of people who use dual names, not to mention a sizeable group who will just use the Māori name (which could entirely be down to the difference in our experiences between Dunners and Welly). The dual name makes it easiest for all of these groups to find for little to no downside.

Contrary to what some may think, I'm only ever trying to act in good faith with these discussions and make what I believe are genuine improvements to Wikipedia. It's certainly not just dual names for the sake of them, or dual names and dual names only. Turnagra (talk) 06:37, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

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Your PROD

Thanks for the PROD. As you have seen, the article is now at AfD. What you won't have seen is this: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/AnonymousReality. With paid editing, there's always socking involved. The trick is to find them. It was a fruitful hunt! Schwede66 23:30, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks so much! I figured there was surely a process for that sort of article—that sort of editing—though I was mainly concerned with how easy it might be to confirm sponsored sources… I wasn't thinking very much about chasing the editor at that point. — HTGS (talk) 23:48, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

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Edit warring and attempts at removing infomation from pages

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Cheers

Thanks for closing that RFC on Talk:Ruble and apologies if I contributed to the discussion getting off-topic and way out of hand. I hope there can be more productive discussions in future. -- Grnrchst (talk) 11:19, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

No worries at all. I appreciate a bit of discussion over the philosophy behind what we do and why we do it, so I don’t love to shut that down too quickly, but as an RfC it was just untenable. It should have been either an RM or an informal discussion to begin with, and I suspect it would only have gone even further off the rails with time. — HTGS (talk) 20:54, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

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CFD closed

Just wanted to let you know that the CFD you initiated about Ngai Tahu was closed in favor of the split you proposed. Since you seem most able to work on it, I wanted to give you a heads up. bibliomaniac15 05:45, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

HTGS, I missed the CFD but just wanted to pop by and say thank you; really sensible change and makes the iwi categories easier to manage. Cheers, Chocmilk03 (talk) 01:59, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Ngāi Takoto people

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Your draft article, Draft:Dunedin School of Art

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Dual name spaces

Hey - just a heads up in relation to your edit on Aoraki / Mount Cook that it seems the NZGB are slowly in the process of updating the orthography of dual names to be consistently spaced slashes. I don't think it's a big deal and it'll probably take longer for the dual names which are legislated as a result of treaty settlements, but noting the lack of spaces probably isn't worth the effort if they're in the process of being phased out anyway. Turnagra (talk) 22:25, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

@Turnagra: Yeah, I don’t love the current situation and it’s awful to write around the more future-oriented spaces and the technically-true non-spaces. I’m trying to be very reader-first here, imagining that many people will wonder about the names, and I’m mostly just trying to make sure that readers get the “true” name as spelled officially somewhere. Would hate for someone to lose an argument over dinner because we don’t mention the unspaced name haha. — HTGS (talk) 22:33, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

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Precious

principles and fallacies

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Murder of Malachi Subecz

Hi HTGS, regarding your earlier query in 2022 about creating an article for the Murder of Malachi Subecz, you will be pleased to know I have just created one. Feel free to check it out. Andykatib (talk) 12:32, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Andykatib: Amazing! Fantastic job. I personally got about two paragraphs in last year, but life got a too busy and… good grief that is a depressing subject, so I am so glad that you really did the article so well. I might have a deeper look later, but it really is well done, and any changes I would make at the moment would be mere nitpickiness. — HTGS (talk) 00:12, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi HTGS, you’re welcome. Had a free day on Anzac Day so I decided to give the article a shot. Has been at the back of my mind for the past several months. I think it helps raise awareness of Malachi’s story as well child abuse in New Zealand. The Subecz article is also a good companion to similar articles on the Cris and Cru Kahui homicides and the Murder of Nia Glassie. Feel free to make any edits or corrections. Andykatib (talk) 02:59, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Restoring Triggernometry Wiki Page

Hi HTGS, I believe you deleted the Triggernometry (podcast) wiki page and instead made it a redirect to Konstantin Kisin. The reason for this was to a lack of articles about the podcast from reliable sources. There now is one: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/revisionist-history-malcolm-gladwell-podcast-review-malcolm-gladwell-cvcbmmp3g. As a result, can the Triggernometry Wikipedia page be restored? Jschanna7 (talk) 12:32, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Jschanna7. I was indeed notified of Triggernometry's deletion review above, and although I didn’t participate, I think the proposition of taking the page to draft (at Draft:Triggernometry (podcast)) and resubmitting it to review at Wikipedia:Articles for creation is reasonable. For the record, I cannot read the review you’re linking to (paywall), but I still think it likely won’t be good enough for me to support it. But that’s of little concern going forward, as I don’t tend to participate in AFC, and you might find editors there are supportive.

(Minor note: Technically I didn’t delete that page, but I did nominate it for deletion. Beyond my nomination, it was a community decision.) — HTGS (talk) 00:07, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

You can read the review at https://archive.is/FqbvG. -gadfium 04:50, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for the response and helpful information. Jschanna7 (talk) 17:11, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Changing of short description for Yale School of Art

Hi there,

I wanted to clarify my short description changes on Yale School of Art. My rationale is that it clarifies that it's part of Yale University and its a shorter description than what was previously there. I wasn't trying to edit war or anything; I just felt that saying its an art school in New Haven, Connecticut is more appropriate for a school that is independent from others.

P.S: I'm leaving this message on your talk page because apparently, the talk page on that article seems to be completely empty and unlikely to be seen by anyone other than you and I. I can leave it there too, if needed. I hope this clears things up even if only a little bit Losipov (talk) 03:49, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

@HTGS I should add that there's only one response on that talk page, but like I said, it would most likely be only us discussing. Losipov (talk) 22:38, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

@Losipov: Hey, thanks for reaching out. My general attitude is that when the short description gets to the point of restating the article’s title we should use it to say something more (when reasonable). So when the title includes “Yale” already, it’s better to give some other detail than to reiterate Yale in the SD. And of course the school is still its own school, regardless of whether it’s independent or a part of the university. — HTGS (talk) 22:18, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Oh, and for this sort of disagreement, it is better to discuss at the page’s talk, just on the chance that there are people watching who might have liked to be notified, even if there hasn’t already been any discussion there. — HTGS (talk) 22:21, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

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Template:Adjacent place causing floating images

Hi there! I'm having an issue with the adjacent place template, which is causing images to be misaligned (e.g. in Bucklands Beach an image which should be displayed at the start of a section is instead displayed half-way down the section, in line with the adjacent place template). Do you know what might be causing this? It seems like if the places are a part of the main infobox, this issue doesn't happen. --Prosperosity (talk) 01:24, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

I've found this too. It applies to any image or this template which falls directly underneath the infobox (even if it isn't directly following the infobox in markup), and forces the {{historical populations}} box I add to geographical articles out of place. My solution is to either move the markup for the image to below the historical population box, or to centre the box. A better solution would be welcome.-gadfium 02:16, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Bugger.

Sorry, for the mess up. Use {{stack begin}} and {{stack end}} around the first floating boxes (the infobox and the AP box) for any pages where there are subsequent left aligned boxes. The stack template is actually included in the IB, which is why it wasn’t an issue when they were bundled. I won’t be making any more changes to the suburb pages in the next few weeks anyway, but I’ll have to sort that out before going on. — HTGS (talk) 11:21, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

@Gadfium, @Prosperosity — HTGS (talk) 11:22, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, that works well.-gadfium 18:14, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! I've tried it out on the Bucklands Beach article and it seems to work well. --Prosperosity (talk) 21:43, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

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Precious anniversary

Precious

One year!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:00, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

2020s

Please, please. There are many reasons we should remove the photomontage for the 2020s page. Number one, WP:WAIT applies to this, and we should consider removing it for now because of that. Two, there are many ongoing discussions on the page, and we should remove it until they are solved, at least. DementiaGaming (talk) 02:37, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

@DementiaGaming: I restored the collage at 2020s as there was an RFC ongoing (Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Years#RfC: Removal of image collages), and removing the collage partway through would be unproductive and disruptive. You may also consider my revert as the second step of WP:BRD. The RFC has now closed with consensus against deleting all collages. The decision to remove this specific collage is now to be made at that article’s talk page.

I think you are misreading WP:WAIT though. That is an essay on what personal attitude editors might choose to make towards how they work on Wikipedia. It recommends not getting too worried about fixing everything all at once and instead taking your time and relaxing a little bit. I suggest sincerely that you consider this philosophy yourself. If you instead mean that we should wait to make decisions or drastic changes to the encyclopaedia, I think that attitude better supports the idea of leaving the collage there for the moment to see how things go, rather than simply deleting it. — HTGS (talk) 03:09, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Your comments at ANI

Kia ora, figured I'd reach out here instead of continuing it directly on that discussion as I feel like it's getting a bit away from the subject at hand in that discussion. Just wanted to say that I do appreciate your point and would've been totally understanding if you had called both of us out. We might disagree on the naming side of things, but I do think you're generally a decent editor and far more willing to be constructive than some others, so I'd definitely find your takes helpful. I do try to maintain civility and focus on the merits of the argument at hand, but I'm well aware that my frustration with certain editors can manifest as less than professional comments (in as much as anything on Wikipedia is "professional", I suppose) from time to time. It's definitely something I'll try to work on, though frankly I'd prefer to just get on with actual editing rather than having those pop up all the time... Turnagra (talk) 08:26, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

@Turnagra: Agreed on all counts. I respect you and your contributions a lot (most of them 😉). And I won’t pretend I haven’t had my moments of frustration, and probable incivility—I try not to dwell on it. I think it helps with the goal of professionalism to pretend I’m less anonymous than I am. You might find a similar attitude helps. I think we agree on how exhausting the naming discussions can be, so my attitude has been to keep my involvement brief. On occasion that backfires, and an unresponded-to comment is referenced in an RM close (ugh)… but hey, mental health and all that.

In any case, my offer for a beer still stands. — HTGS (talk) 21:25, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

I remember reading guidance around move requests or something similar before, where it described commenting as adding an optional single-line explanation to support your vote - oh, how times have changed. It's definitely tough when there are persistent editors in the discussion to not engage, but then engaging leads to a vicious cycle around it. Hopefully things calm down for a bit now.

And cheers, will keep that in mind. Still haven't managed to find myself in Dunners for long enough to take you up on it yet. Turnagra (talk) 06:35, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

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Djong (ship) has an RfC

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Talk page for Kura Kaupapa Māori

Hi. When you moved Kura Kaupapa Māori to Kura kaupapa Māori the Talk page did not get moved, so now the Talk history is not directly attached to the article. Was there a technical reason for not moving the Talk page? Nurg (talk) 21:13, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Nope, no reason on my part, in fact I’m 90% sure I would have had that box checked. Looking at it, I’m guessing it didn’t move because the lowercase talk page already existed (don’t ask me why). Let me get to a desktop I’ll put in the request to delete and move it to where they should be. — HTGS (talk) 04:47, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Done thanks for checking in @Nurg — HTGS (talk) 04:57, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

thank you. Nurg (talk) 10:34, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

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Unpleasant

It's rather unpleasant to lie about other editors, and equally so when doubling down on it. Leave the {{rpa}} template in place and don't be abusive to good faith editors in future. - SchroCat (talk) 06:56, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:No personal attacks#What is considered to be a personal attack? I attempted to explain the misunderstanding on your talk page, but the point is that I was not accusing Tim of taking ownership, but of using ownership-like arguments. None of this is a personal attack, and I meant all of it in good faith. I encourage you to take the evening/morning/rest-of-the-day, rather than feeling like you have to respond now. I’ll still be here later. — HTGS (talk) 07:14, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

I don't take advice from uncivil people who leave abuse for others, then edit war to double down on it. Tim gave an explanation that took into account the opinions of a previous editor: that is not any form of ownership, or (to use your weaselly language) 'using ownership-like arguments'. And you don't get to hide being pulled up on your abuse: that will remain in place as long as the abuse does. - SchroCat (talk) 07:19, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Editor experience invitation

Hi HTGS. I'm looking for experienced editors to interview here. Feel free to pass if you're not interested. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 13:20, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for editing Valmaine Toki

@HTGS: Thank you for improving an article I recently edited (Valmaine Toki). I really appreciate your editing time invested and your valuable contributions.

One thing I noted is that you removed the following part from the lead saying it was uncited:

In 2009, she highlighted the historical and ongoing issues of Māori representation in Auckland's governance, criticizing the government's decision to reject the Royal Commission's recommendation for dedicated Māori seats on the Auckland council.

I believe that you I forgot to recite an already cited body source there so sorry for that and I understand why you removed it the paragraph.

So I rewrote the paragraph and improved the tone and recited the source. It now reads like this:

In 2009, Toki drew attention to the historical and ongoing challenges of Māori representation in Auckland's governance, criticizing the government's rejection of the Royal Commission's recommendation for dedicated Māori seats on the Auckland Council.

Please take a look at the lead again and ping me!

Happy editing!

Reykcultura7193 (talk) 23:34, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Reykcultura7193! I probably should have said so in my edit summary, but the other thought behind removing that sentence was that it’s just not important enough for the lead. Given that the only ref is her own opinion piece, it just isn’t a big contributor to her notability (of course if you know of other reliable sources that reference her opinion there, please do add them). — HTGS (talk) 03:52, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

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Message

Lol my bad bro, i was trying to revert the edit but i seen that you edited something, i didn't mean to remove it AmarikSZN (talk) 23:00, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Did you disagree with my edit adding {{Percentage}}? Or were you planning to change something else? No worries, just trying to get on the same page! — HTGS (talk) 23:05, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Nah i was trying to add the dashes back in cause i thought it looked cleaner and i removed it by accident but nevermind about the dashes, your edit was fine, sorry about that bro AmarikSZN (talk) 23:09, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

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Nomination for deletion of Template:In'

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Nomination for deletion of Template:In"

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As an update, I have bundled these two nominations and added {{L'}}, {{L"}}, {{R'}}, and {{R"}} to the nomination. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 19:38, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:WGA Awards/color

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Old image was better

why the change? The train immediately communicated the concept of the article, while the new picture doesnt actually contain a failure in it. 2601:1C0:8383:3560:8CF4:A85:D589:8A6D (talk) 23:33, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

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Do not archive other peoples talk pages

You may have meant well but please don't archive any portion of my talk page. That is for me to do at my own choosing. Thanks. Fyunck(click) (talk) 00:24, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Oh dear, I must have done that by mistake. So sorry, I didn’t even know I’d done it till just now! — HTGS (talk) 02:11, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Māori religious beliefs

I notice you changed the link from [[Religion of Māori people|Māori religious beliefs]] to [[Māori religious beliefs]] in several articles. I am in the process of updating demographics to 2023 results, and my script at present produces the former link. I will be rolling this out to several thousand articles over the next two years, so I'd like to get this right before I go any further. It's trivial for me to change the output of my script for future use, but non-trivial to go back and change it in every article it's been used.

In the census, Māori religious beliefs mostly means Rātana and Ringatū; the actual numbers can be seen at the first reference for Religion in New Zealand, and it covers the categories "Māori Religions, Beliefs and Philosophies nfd"; "Rātana"; "Ringatū"; "Paimarire"; and "Māori Religions, Beliefs and Philosophies nec". I don't believe the section Religion of Māori people#Traditional Māori religion (which Māori religious beliefs is a redirect to) is a good fit for these. Religion of Māori people#Christian syncretism is a better fit, but to cover the outliers I think linking to the whole article Religion of Māori people is best. Alternatively, we could change the redirect to point to the whole article.

The table I'm using covers SA1 and SA2 areas as well as larger areas, but don't give me access to the more detailed breakdown of categories I list in the previous paragraph. The table which does have the detailed categories doesn't give a subnational breakdown.

Maybe I'm missing something. Feel free to set me right.-Gadfium (talk) 05:20, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

@Gadfium: My main presumption is that the term “Māori religious beliefs” is (and will be) the term used by Stats NZ, and that wherever that term takes a reader, it will always be used the same way. I had imagined that in the long-term, traditional beliefs would be split off properly, and the redirect would either be used as the title, or would retarget such a new article. Cutting the pipe is just my attempt to ensure that the redirect functions as our way to get readers to the right topic, but whether the redirect is currently correct wasn’t something I had thought too hard about. My figuring was that we should use the redirect whenever Stats uses the term, basically per WP:NOTBROKEN. BUT, I wasn’t aware that Rātana and Ringatū were covered by the label, and I would have expected them to be represented as Christian religions, so maybe that plan—splitting—won’t ever make sense.

I hope that makes as much sense to you as it does to me? Either way, yes, I think the redirect should target the top of the article, at least for now. Always happy to work with you too, rather than find out later either one of us made a whole lot of unnecessary changes. — HTGS (talk) 23:32, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

So you support the redirect being changed to point to Religion of Māori people rather than a subsection? That would be ideal, as I can alter the script to just use the redirect, and earlier uses won't need to be changed. Since you created the redirect, I think you should alter it.-Gadfium (talk) 04:14, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

 Done. Thank you! — HTGS (talk) 04:24, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

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