Talk:List of kings of Ebla

second kingdom

Hey User:Ploversegg. You moved two kings to the second kingdom i.e.Mardikh IIB2. Those kings are considered by the sources used now in the article are part of the Amorite third kingdom. Do you have new sources connecting them to Mardikh IIB2?. Attar-Aram syria (talk) 15:02, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

I read it on a paper on JSTOR which is currently down. This article says much the same which is that the "kingdom" was of local (probably amorite) origin but kept many of the trappings and religious stuff of the previous "kingdom" like non-amorite names. When JSTOR returns I will see what I used. Until then "D’Andrea, Marta. "Ebla between the Early and Middle Bronze Ages: A Précis (and Some New Data)." Asia Anteriore Antica. Journal of Ancient Near Eastern Cultures 3 (2021): 3-41" [1] Ploversegg (talk) 16:36, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Where was I. OK, my edit was based on several papers including "Archi, Alfonso. “A Royal Seal from Ebla (17th Cent. B.C.) with Hittite Hieroglyphic Symbols.” Orientalia, vol. 84, no. 1, 2015, pp. 18–28" and "Astour, Michael C.. "A Reconstruction of the History of Ebla (Part 2)". Eblaitica: Essays on the Ebla Archives and Eblaite Language, Volume 4, edited by Cyrus H. Gordon and Gary A. Rendsburg, University Park, USA: Penn State University Press, 2021, pp. 57-196" etc. It blurs together a bit as I was catching up on some reading while doing small pokes on the Ebla article. If you think it reads better as before than feel free to revert that edit. I won't be offended. If so might think about adding a small placeholder type thing so readers aren't confused by the jump from first to third.Ploversegg (talk) 17:26, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Ah yeah, I read a paper about this and I think we read the same paper (about the Amorite kingdom retaining many features from the pre-Amorite Ebla). However, the second kingdom is Mardikh IIB2 and Ibbit-Lim belongs to Mardikh IIIA. We dont know if the second one was Amorite but what is certain is that no name of a second kingdom king is known, only the title "megum" so its not accurate to describe Igrish Heba, Ibbit lim and Ib dammu II to the second kingdom.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 17:43, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Ok. What does belong to the second kingdom then? Or was there even one.Ploversegg (talk) 17:55, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Yes, archaeology proved that after the end of the archive period another kingdom was established that we code Mardikh IIB2 but we have no names of its kings, only evidence from Ur III proving that Ebla had a king. Mardikh III is the Amorite or third kingdom to which the kings you placed in the second kingdom belong.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 17:58, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Cool. I did read that in the Ebla article and thought it seemed a bit fluffy hand wavy. :-) I stand corrected. My read was the the Isin-Larsa period Ebla still was part of the early Ebla milieu and the the Ebla of the Old Babylonian period destroyed by the Hittite was all Amorite all the time so I binned them as separate things. Do you want to revert the list or should I do it.Ploversegg (talk) Ploversegg (talk) 18:08, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Maybe you can revert it and add a note that no kings are known for the second kingdom if you think this helps avoiding any confusion.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 18:10, 5 November 2022 (UTC)