Talk:Johnny Weir

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton (talk) 19:33, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

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U.S. figure skater Johnny Weir in 2010

• ... that U.S. figure skater Johnny Weir was an equestrian and pair skater before switching to single skating? Source: "Weir Jumps from Show Ring to Ice Rink" [1]; "Weir Took Wing Flying Solo" [2]
  • ALT1: ... that in 2006, U.S. figure skater Johnny Weir became the first male skater to win U.S. Nationals three times in a row since Brian Boitano in the late 1980s? Source: "Weir wears image well" [3]
  • Reviewed: Grip (raven)
  • Comment: If this passes, I request that it appear on the Main Page on either March 23 or March 24, to coincide with this year's Worlds championships.

Improved to Good Article status by Figureskatingfan (talk). Self-nominated at 20:07, 20 February 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Johnny Weir; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• Promoted to GA less than 7 days ago so new enough, hook is properly sourced and formatted, copyvio came up fine. Personally I prefer ALT1. Just waiting on QPQ and you should be good to go.--🚂Locomotive207-talk🚂 22:44, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

User:Locomotive207, thanks for the quick review. QPQ done now. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 04:30, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

QPQ done, ALT1 is good to go. --🚂Locomotive207-talk🚂 16:56, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

@Figureskatingfan and Locomotive207: Hi guys – shouldn't ALT1 say 2006 instead of 2004? The first paragraph of the lead also says 2004, so I'm not entirely sure if this is a mistake or if I'm missing something. Also, I've edited the hook to say "first male skater" rather than simply "first skater", to bring it in line with the source. Sojourner in the earth (talk) 18:11, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

It was an error in the lead I can't believe no one caught so far, so thanks for catching it. I have corrected it in the lead and fixed the hook here. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 19:06, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

@Figureskatingfan, Locomotive207, and Sojourner in the earth: The primary source (Weir, Johnny (2011). Welcome to My World. New York: Simon & Schuster) is used for 76 separate citations in the article. It might be hard to claim neutrality when our article leans so heavily on a memoir of the subject. I would ask for a second opinion of BlueMoonset. The request is for March 23-24 so wwe have some time. Bruxton (talk) 19:29, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Bruxton, I'm not an expert on BLPs, and know very little about Weir, but I'd say that it matters more what types of information the autobiography is being used for, and whether the other 75% of article citations sufficiently balance the 25% from his bio. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:11, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

BlueMoonset Thank you, It is always dood to get another opinion. Bruxton (talk) 02:15, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Yes, thank you BlueMoonset. I believe that this bio does exactly as you say. Yes, the Weir memoir is used a lot in this bio, but mostly to supplement other sources. According to my count, the memoir is used 28 times as a stand-alone ref, whereas the other times other sources support the same content. Additionally, according to this, books published by established publishers aren't self-published (Weir's is published by Simon & Schuster). That can be interpreted in different ways, but my interpretation is that it's okay to use memoirs, as long as it's done sparingly and when necessary. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 04:28, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

@Figureskatingfan: I never said "self published" I said memoir. And a memoir is a person writing about themself, which is why neutrality is tainted. Bruxton (talk) 05:01, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Bruxton raises a legitimate concern, so I've done a reasonably thorough review. The upshot is that I don't think there's any issues here that ought to be a blocker for DYK. As Christine says, the autobiography is mostly used to supplement other sources. Where it is used as a stand-alone ref, this is mostly to support direct quotes from Weir or generally subjective information; for example, the paragraph about the swan routine relies heavily on the autobio, but this is not inappropriate because the paragraph is discussing Weir's own thoughts on the routine.

In some instances where Weir's book is the only source for factual information, I found this same information substantiated in the surrounding refs. In other cases, I didn't find the information elsewhere, and I've listed those instances below, though I want to reiterate that none of this is DYK-blocking.

Extended content

The following pieces of information are, in my view, uncontroversial and not unduly self-serving, so are fine to be sourced to the autobiography: his Shetland pony, Shadow – Another source in this paragraph gives the name of the horse as My Blue Shadow, but Weir is more likely to be a reliable source for this. His family moved to New Britain, Connecticut, so he could train. Weir's friend and fellow skater Sasha Cohen helped him contact Tarasova, who waived her fees for him. Weir's trip to Japan marked the first time he came "face-to-face" with Johnny's Angels, a group of figure skating fans who supported Weir emotionally and financially – This could do with some clarification, whether the Angels are a particular group of fans or just his fans in general. Weir toured again with Champions on Ice in-between seasons, his longest tour with them to date; he chose Frank Sinatra's "My Way", "for its obvious symbolism", as his performance number His free skating program, in which he portrayed the life of Christ, was the weakest of the season; Weir disliked his costume and his program did not go over well with spectators and judges. Despite severe back pain ... Weir had not skated a full program in practice for almost two weeks due to his back pain – Weir says that he kept his back pain a secret, so it's unlikely to be mentioned in any secondary sources. It was Weir's lowest result in the short program as a senior skater at a Nationals in his career A few things that could do with better sourcing: Despite protests from Weir's fans and the media, including charges of homophobia, the results stood – Weir's account of this incident is obviously biased in his favour, while the secondary sources cited in the article don't seem to indicate that the outcome was unfair. It would be better to have a secondary source for the claimed media protests. Despite his loss, Weir was chosen as favorite skater of the year by the readers of U.S. Figure Skating's Skating Magazine – A potentially self-serving claim that could conceivably be sourced directly to the magazine instead. The paragraph beginning In the fall of 2011 is sourced only to Weir p. 233, which supports his choice of "Poker Face" and his admiration of Gaga but none of the other content in that paragraph.

— Sojourner in the earth (talk) 09:23, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

I agree with you @Sojourner in the earth:. You really went out of your way for that analysis and I I see that he made himself look better a few times. The article is well written and I am going to move it to the special holding area for the dates requested. Hope that the editors will consider working through your analysis of sources they might consider replacing. Bruxton (talk) 15:15, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Yes @Sojourner in the earth: thanks for the feedback and thanks @Bruxton: for the promotion. I will take the feedback into consideration if I were ever to bring this bio to FAC. Which I doubt, because to be honest, figure skating bios, about both male and female skaters, tend to be difficult to get through peer reviews and one has to be able to be in a place to expend the emotional labor to manage it. For me, I'm currently out of that energy, mostly due to recent experiences with these bios. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:13, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Error in Detailed Results section

The detailed results row for the 2005 US Championships is currently incorrect, and displays 2006 US Championship scores instead of the correct numbers from the 2005 event. Q26443 (talk) 13:55, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for bringing that to our attention. I have corrected the scores (the U.S. Championships still used ranked-choice placements that year) and removed the source which was not for the men’s event anyway. Bgsu98 (Talk) 14:54, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Edit Request: grammatical typo

In the section #Skating technique and influence, this:

who was, unlike many figure skating coaches, was "nurturing and gentle"

should be replaced with

who, unlike many figure skating coaches, was "nurturing and gentle"

99.146.242.37 (talk) 02:35, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

99.146.242.37, thanks for the grammar error catch, but you could've just done it yourself. We're all here to build an encyclopedia, so if you see something like this, it's okay to fix it. So please, go ahead! ;) Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:55, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Update of the first sentence in the lead section

@Figureskatingfan: I just realized that the first sentence of the lead does not mention Weir's retirement from figure skating yet. To clarify that he is no longer active as a skater (neither as a competitor nor professional), my suggestion is the following:

John Garvin Weir (/ˈwɪər/; born July 2, 1984) is an American television commentator and retired figure skater. [He competed in the men's singles discipline from 1996 to 2013 and continued skating as a professional in ice shows until 2023].

The addition in brackets is optional, but I think it's a very useful information for casual readers before advancing to the list of medals and titles. What do you think? Henni147 (talk) 11:38, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

@Henni147, it's true the the first sentence doesn't mention Weir's retirement, but it and his broadcasting career is mentioned later on in the lead. Your addition, IMO, would be redundant. We can add, like you've done, that he's retired from competitive skating, so the sentence would read: "John Garvin Weir (/ˈwɪər/; born July 2, 1984) is an American television commentator and retired competitive figure skater." Would that work? Thanks for bringing this to discussion. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:44, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

@Figureskatingfan: Yes, that should definitely do. Thanks for your reply! Henni147 (talk) 16:47, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Done. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 18:23, 11 April 2024 (UTC)