Talk:Hope Emerson

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Hope Emerson/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: SL93 (talk · contribs) 00:11, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Thebiguglyalien (talk · contribs) 22:58, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello! I'll get this reviewed within the next few days. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 22:58, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Thebiguglyalien Thank you. I will try replacing the third citation because I don't have access to it. SL93 (talk) 23:28, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

SL93, before I do a full review, the sourcing needs a closer look:

• Is there evidence that the Iowa History Journal is reliable? It looks like a self-published source.

• It is not self-published. I used the print version from the local library and the website page only has a preview. Here is the About page. It is an award-winning magazine first and foremost. Also take a look at this. SL93 (talk) 23:31, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

• The Notable Names Database is deprecated on Wikipedia (I suggest using User:Headbomb/unreliable or User:SuperHamster/CiteUnseen, which denote potentially unreliable sources whenever they're used in an article).

• Where did the article use the Notable Names Database? I don't see it. SL93 (talk) 23:36, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
• I changed the source. SL93 (talk) 23:50, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

• Atkinson, Brooks (January 10, 1947). "New York Times" is formatted incorrectly to the point that it doesn't properly indicate the source.

• That source and its information is now gone. SL93 (talk) 23:43, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

• Are you able to clip the Newspapers.com sources? Right now they're behind a paywall but clipping can make them linkable. If not, I can find someone with access to get them clipped.

• Done. SL93 (talk) 23:47, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

And there were more issues that I fixed myself:

• Musical Courier needed a page number.
• The People link needed to be marked as dead.
• The Turner Movies source had a duplicate citation.
• The New York Times Times Machine didn't need an archive link because it can't be archived. And while this is optional, I denoted it as requiring a subscription.
• The Newspapers.com sources also can't use archive links.

Thebiguglyalien (talk) 23:28, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

thebiguglyalien I think it's all completed. SL93 (talk) 23:48, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

All right, everything looks good so far. I'll get the prose and spot checks taken care of in the next couple days. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 00:02, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for picking up the review. SL93 (talk) 00:04, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

SL93: Okay, I usually like to do the review all at once, but there's one other thing before I get into the details. I did a quick check for broad coverage, and I found Femme Noir: Bad Girls of Film, which has a short chapter on Emerson at pp. 121–129. It looks like this source includes some important details that should be in the article before we can say it has broad coverage. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 20:35, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Thebiguglyalien What information do you think would be needed from it? I added more details from it. SL93 (talk) 22:00, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

SL93, here's the full review. There are a lot of things that need to be fixed in the article given its short length. Between these and the citation issues above, it could have benefited from an in depth check before its GA nomination. But since it's short, it should be feasible to fix these within the GA process if you wish. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 20:45, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Thebiguglyalien I will withdraw this. Beyond this, I am also too busy in real life. SL93 (talk) 22:20, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

All right, I'll close the review. I hope to see it back at GAN some day, it was an interesting read. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 22:21, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

General

• I made a few minor copyedits, feel free to review, change, or question them as you please: Special:Diff/1250675870.
• For broad coverage, this should have a filmography covering all of her roles. The Turner Classic source at https://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/person/57347%7C71011/Hope-Emerson#filmography has a list of film appearances, so this could be copied over without having to find a new source for each one. She also has television and stage appearances that should be included.
• Excessive use of quotations through the article. Ideas need to be expressed with original wording unless there's a good reason not to, especially when the quotes are copyrighted text. Long quotes should especially be avoided, except perhaps Emerson's own words since that's a unique perspective where keeping the wording intact may be important.

Lead

• The lead misses the major beats of her career like award nominations and major appearances. It would be preferable to describe some of the films she was in instead of descriptions of the roles.
• Do vaudevillian and nightclub performer need to be emphasized? She doesn't seem to be known for either of those.
• The article doesn't say she was a strongwoman, only that she played one in a film.
• Quotations need to be cited as they appear. Either it needs a citation in the lead, it needs to be paraphrased (my preference), or it needs to be removed.

Personal life

• "over her old gray head if came around" – Just to check, is this error in the original quote, or was it introduced when copying it to the article?

Early career

• "After graduation" – I suggest either "After graduating" or "After she graduated".
• "for sewing, dressmaking, and paying for Emerson's piano lessons" – The latter isn't a career and doesn't fit with the others.
• There are a few times when Emerson, her mother, and her cousin are in the same sentence in a way that gets confusing or repetitive. This is a trickier copyedit, but something should be done with these.

Professional career

• In addition to the quote issue, this quote by Turner Classic starts to sound a little promotional. A little reception is fine if it adds to a specific aspect, but this is just general praise.
• "Despite her successful performance in Lysistrata" – This is the first we're hearing of Lysistrata, but it sounds like we're already supposed to know what it is.
• "on the big stage" – tone
• "to test of her new songs"
• "more memorable roles" – This is a subjective claim.
• "The book Female Masculinity says" – I suggested attributing this to the author instead of the book itself, preferably giving the author's position so the reader understands why this particular person's opinion matters.
• "Emerson did not like doing a scene in Cry of the City in which she had to choke the actor Richard Conte" – This feels like a non sequitur. Perhaps start by saying what the role was and then get into the details like the article does with Double Crossbones.
• "that was based around family or friends luring a special guest to a specific event without them knowing" – It's unclear what exactly this means, and it might be better off removed altogether since it doesn't tell us what Emerson had to do with it.
• and it was "considered quite an honor to be chosen". – I'm assuming this was her quote? If so, this should be made clear.

Death

• "lengthy liver ailment" should be reworded.

References

• Femme Noir (1998): good. I won't push this any further, but I don't know why so much of the information in this source is being left out of the article. None of the plot/character information is necessary of course, but it talks a lot about her life behind the scenes and her own perspective. It also wouldn't hurt to add the author to the citation.
• Halberstam (1998): good, but note that the two listed authors are different names for the same person.
• Schaap (2019): good.

Sioux City Journal (1960) and The Citizen-News (1960):

• The Citizen-News covers everything that Sioux City Journal does, but in more detail. Is there any reason to keep Sioux City Journal?
• The Citizen-News has several details about her personal life. Not necessary for GA's broad coverage requirement, but I see no reason to exclude them either.
• Not a major thing, but these sources say that her large figure over the piano was part of her image.

Turner Classic Movies:

• Is there a reason why the article doesn't incorporate the information about trends in her career each decade (1920s and 1930s, then less activity in the 1950s)? Broad information about the trajectory of her career each decade is at least as important as naming off individual things she did.
• The article says "followed by her role" but the source says they were concurrent.
• Why no mention of I Married Joan? The source emphasizes its importance.
• The source doesn't say that it's a "starring role" in The Dennis O'Keefe Show.