Talk:Bengali Muslims

Citizens of Mughal Bengal, chiefly Muslim?

The claim that citizens of Mughal Bengal were "chiefly" Muslim is unsubstantiated. The British Indian census of 1880 ascertains a 50% Muslim population of Bengal, and the proportion has increased ever since. It is most unlikely therefore that 200 years earlier, Mughal Bengal was Muslim majority!Sdgmtl (talk) 21:26, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Vandalism

This page needs urgent indefinite protection due to excessive vandalism.Messiaindarain (talk) 08:11, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Bengali Muslim personalities

Infobox personalities

Please keep the the infobix photos in chronological order (at least by their year of birth). Certainly Salman Khan is not older than Humayun Ahmed!!!

Classification of Bengali Muslims

I raise an issue with this article. A Bengali Muslim is anyone, who professes or practices Islam and speaks Bengali or has at least one parent who spoke Bengali. With regards to others please refer to Ahmed Sharif's interview. In this regard I have issue with Hamid Ansari. Are his parents speakers of Bengali language. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Messiaindarain (talk • contribs) 10:23, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Pakistani Bengali Muslims

i bleave that pakistan should also be on the list as the govt had given nationality to 3 million Bengali people in 2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Madman 0014 (talk • contribs) 06:50, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Bengali muslim population under estimated

I think bengali muslim population is hugely under estimated here the population of bangladesh is more than 160 million by un estimate and according pew forum 90% of bangladesh population is muslim. So bengali muslim population from bangladesh is 146 million(as 99% of bangladesh population is bengali). In the case of india,it is also under estimated bengali muslim population. In indian state of west bengal muslim are 27%. and 91% of muslim population of west bengal are bengali speaking(as only 2.2% of west bengal population are urdu speaking) so bengali muslim population is 22 million in west bengal. In assam muslim are 10 millions out of 30million. 70% of assam's muslim is east bengali descent. So india's bengali muslim population should be over 30 millions.

There is no photo of india's prominent bengali muslim. I think maulana abul kalam azad(son of an afgan descent bengali muslim father),humayun kabir(india's ex education minister),syed mustafa siraz(reknowned indian bengali writer),altamas kabir(nephew of humayun kabir and ex chief justice of india),rahim nabi(indian national football team player),aba gani khan chowdhry(ex railway minister of india,ex president of wb congress) should also be included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shuridh (talk • contribs) 07:01, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Maulana Abul Kalam Azad was born in Kolkata, but he never spoke Bengali language. As for A.B.A. Ghani Khan Chowdhury you can add if you have the picture, in order of chronology.Messiaindarain (talk) 08:18, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Edit war

User:Vaza12 is trying to escalate the article into an edit war with mass removal of content, without consulting other editors. As such, I have no option but to notify the admins.Messiaindarain (talk) 05:09, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

There is no point explaining things to you. You accuse me of POV but all I've done is to make this page non political. Whereas all you do is add content on political Islamists, which is not the subject of this article.--Vaza12 (talk) 07:22, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

"Political Islamists"!!! Please exlpain, because I am not an expert on this field!? XD I tell what the sources tell me to do, I do in good faith. What about the edits on "Sufi heritage"!!? Am I talking about a "Sufi Agenda for Bangladeshi portal on Wikipedia." No, not currently but I hope the nature of Wikipedia could deal with your vandalism and agendas. Messiaindarain (talk) 05:29, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Not sure about why you find Sufism controversial. You cant have a work on Islam in Bengal without mentioning Sufism. And its mention in the article is proportional to the sources. Please, enlighten yourself.--Vaza12 (talk) 19:28, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

I did not say that I find Sufism controversial. Nor have I problem with mentioning Sufism. I do have a problem with you removing sources and mentions of development of a sycrestic belief system as per sources. Therefore, the problem lies with the edits being hagiographic about Sufism and therefore being POV content. Please, go on enlightening!!!Messiaindarain (talk) 06:21, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

My fellow editors: you're both intelligent people with the same goal of improving the article. I'm sure with some effort you can have a meeting of the minds – that is, come to some agreement. The best way to achieve this is to be specific: refer to specific lines added or removed (specific edits, supplying the diffs). Be very specific in your criticism: "This sentence you added in this edit does not reflect the source", or "The section X has too much material on Y compared to Z". Mention specific sources and relevant Wikipedia policies and guidelines (supplying the links, such as WP:RS, WP:UNDUE, WP:FALSEBALANCE). Best regards,  – Corinne (talk) 14:23, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Or if the editor feels something is missing in the article, the editor is more than welcome to add content on that subject.--Vaza12 (talk) 16:44, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Yes, of course.  – Corinne (talk) 23:55, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Some questions following GOCE copy-edit

Vaza12 Here are some questions I have following a copy-edit of Bengali Muslims in response to your request at Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests:

1) In the second paragraph in the section Bengali Muslims#Early Islamic kingdoms is the following sentence:

• It adopted Bengali as its official language alongside Quranic Arabic and Persian as the language of diplomacy.

The last part of the sentence, "the language of diplomacy", is singular, yet two languages were mentioned just before it, Quranic Arabic and Persian. Were both languages adopted as languages of diplomacy, or was only Persian adopted as the language of diplomacy?

2) In the second paragraph of the section Bengali Muslims#Islamization are the following two sentences:

• Mughal schemes cleared forests and established thousands of Sufi-led villages, which hosted industrious farming and craftsmanship communities. The schemes were most evident in the Bhati region of East Bengal, the most fertile part of the delta.

I'm wondering about the word "schemes". It is not the right word in American English; I think we would use "projects" or "development projects", or "economic development projects", or even "development initiatives", but I realize there are other versions of English, such as Australian English, British English, Indian English, so I suppose this word may be all right in those versions. What do you think?

3) In the first paragraph of the section Bengali Muslims#Partition and Bangladeshi Republic is the following sentence:

• The breakdown of communal unity in the British Raj led to the Partition of Bengal and India in 1947, in which East Bengal joined the Dominion of Pakistan and was later renamed as East Pakistan.

The phrase "communal unity" does not make sense to me. I'm not sure what it means. Can you suggest a better phrase? The word "communal" also appears in the last sentence of that section, in this phrase:

• the Bengali Muslim minority has faced communal violence from Hindu nationalist groups.

I'm not sure what "communal violence" means. I can guess, but it's a phrase I'm not familiar with. Can you think of another word to use besides "communal", or just explain to me what you mean by the phrase and I will think of a different wording.

4) In the first paragraph of the section Bengali Muslims#Architecture are the following sentences:

• Architecture is considered the supreme form of Islamic art. A glorious indigenous style of Islamic architecture flourished in Bengal during the medieval Sultanate period.

I think "glorious" is a bit subjective, don't you? Would that be considered a WP:PEACOCK word? Shall I just delete it, or substitute a more neutral word?

5) In the section Bengali Muslims#Language is an image of what look like individual characters or letters in the Bengali alphabet. Would that make the caption, which uses "alphabets", incorrect? Shall I change "alphabets" to "letters" or "characters"?

6) In the section Bengali Muslims#Literature, don't you think a clearer image of Kazi Nazrul Islam could be found?

7) In the second paragraph of the Literature section there is a long list of Bengali Muslim literary figures. (a) Do you think the list is too long? and (b) Only one name is a red link. I'm wondering if there might really be a WP article with a slight change in spelling. Could "Abul" be a misspelling of "Abdul"?

8) In the section Bengali Muslims#Muslim Literary Society of Bengal, the name of the organization "Freedom of Intellect Movement" is capitalized, and linked. However, earlier in the article, in the last sentence in the section Bengali Muslims#Anti-colonial struggle, it is deliberately made lower-case (and linked). I think it should either be capitalized in both places or lower-case in both places. Which is better? (I tend to think capitalized is better, but I thought I'd ask.)

9) In the last paragraph in the section Bengali Muslims#Early Islamic kingdoms is the following sentence:

• Emperor Akbar redeveloped the Bengali calendar.

In the second paragraph in Bengali Muslims#Festivals is the following sentence:

• Secular festivals are based on the Bengali calendar which was readapted by the Mughal Emperor Akbar.

In Note 26, it refers to a work entitled: The Bengali New Year – how Akbar invented the modern Bengali calendar.

I have two questions:

(a) Is it a good idea to use two or three different words for the same event?, and

(b) Even if it is a good idea to avoid using "invented" since it is in the source, are "redeveloped" and "readapted" the best words? What do you think? How about "re-designed"? Here are some other articles on calendars for ideas: Gregorian calendar, Julian calendar, Iranian calendars, Zoroastrian calendar.

Well, that's all.  – Corinne (talk) 01:52, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Appreciate your help @Corinne:. I've brought changes in line with each point you made. You can see the changes in the article. I can understand some of the confusion. "Communal" is a byword in many sources for anything inter-religious or sectarian related in the subcontinent. Thanks again.--Vaza12 (talk) 17:02, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

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Incorrect Bengali Muslim population of Assam

All muslims in Assam are not bengalis. So, how there could be 10.7 million muslim bengali in Assam? What about the assamese and manipuri muslims in Assam then who also have a sizeable muslim population ? Arkadeep Dey (talk) 18:08, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Populations

I don't know if the figures on this article were ever accurate, but very few of them bear any relation to what the sources said. So I have tagged most of them as needing sources.

There seems to have been a great deal of;

• Original Synthesis - that is , editors combining information from multiple places to create a number as a best guess. This is not acceptable.
• No clear distinction between sources talking about Bangladeshis, and Bengali Muslims. I know that the latter are the majority of the former, but it is incorrect to assume that when a source talks of one, it also means the other.
• Editors simply updating the numbers without updating the sources. This is also not acceptable, as some of the numbers appear to effectively made up.

The total therefore created by these numbers is equally dubious.

• We cannot add up numbers from multiple sources. This is original synthesis.
• Particularly when some of these numbers are unsourced
• Or are from different years
• Or are only the roughest of estimates

So this number also needs a source. Not one that relies on adding up other sources. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 14:31, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

I again invite the IP editor 86.187.161.95 to show where in the sources the numbers on the article are quoted. And I'm not interested in anything that involves taking numbers from one source and applying them to numbers in another. Please read what orginal synthesis is, and why it is not allowed.

Could you point out where population figures for Bengali Muslims are shown that verify the numbers in the article? Some of them certainly have figures, but are not the numbers given in the article. The numbers in the article either appear to be speculative "updates" on the figures, or synthesised numbers across sources. These have then been added together to produce a total that is guesswork and synthesis.

I list the questionable figures and sources used below for info.

• Bangladesh 153,070,000 http://www.globalreligiousfutures.org/countries/bangladesh/religious_demography#/?affiliations_religion_id=16&affiliations_year=2020
• India 65 million https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/west-bengal-assembly-elections-why-getting-muslims-votes-could-be-tough-for-mamata-banerjee/articleshow/80725522.cms, https://www.sentinelassam.com/topheadlines/janagosthiya-samannay-parishad-asom-starts-census-of-indigenous-assamese-muslims-534146 , https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/assam-plans-survey-to-identify-indigenous-muslim-population/article30780667.ece , https://www.indiatoday.in/india-today-insight/story/can-bjp-survive-the-demographic-disadvantage-in-assam-1784851-2021-03-29
• Pakistan 7,000,000 https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/world-news/bengali-speaking-muslims-languish-in-pakistan/articleshow/71792488.cms
• Qatar 550,000 https://web.archive.org/web/20131222095738/http://www.bqdoha.com/2013/12/population-qatar

Thanks. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 15:58, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Since IP editor 86.187.161.95 has not responded, and all but admitted through their edit summaries that the figures were synthesis and guessing, I'm reverting them again.

Sorry, but I do not see what the following source has to say about Bengali Muslims in India. How does this validate a number of 34,548,250 in 2011?

* https://m.economictimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/rahul-gandhi-slams-central-govt-over-increasing-unemployment/articleshow/89222585.cms

I've also again requested a source for the total number, and again emphasise; it cannot be a summed total of all the other numbers. That is both synthesis and also factually incorrect, because it is adding numbers obtained from different years. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 16:18, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Culture

I really think there should more information about the actual Bengali culture here. why information about folk festivals like Pohela Boishakh getting continuously deleted? 2400:2412:44C1:7D00:354A:3555:9ECF:CFB2 (talk) 13:36, 25 September 2023 (UTC)