Talk:BSicon/Renaming/Archive 8

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Archive 5 Archive 6 Archive 7 Archive 8 Archive 9 Archive 10 → Archive 13

Shifts

Are   (lhSHI2r) and   (uhBS2r) supposed to differ in naming? Should the former be lhBS2r or the latter uhSHI2r? (Note that any page moves are going to affect almost everything in Category:Icons for railway descriptions/shift/two quarters.) Jc86035 (talk • contributions • uploads) 12:30, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

The BS2 root is a legacy name (from the German Bahnstrecke 1/2). Yes, it should be revised to SHI2, but 1) as noted, there's a huge number of icons and diagrams that will be affected; and 2) DE:WP would object most strenuously. So for now BS2 lives on, but (most) new icons use SHI2. Useddenim (talk) 21:27, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
There should be SHI2-redirects for all BS2 icons, I think. That would pave the way for a change. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 02:14, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

mvÜWB inconsistencies

I replaced the hard coded icon table for mixed parallel crossovers on the English catalog and noticed that there are several inconsistencies with the existing icon names. For example,   (umvÜWBl) and   (uxmvÜWBl) swap the colors despite only differing by the 'x' in their names. All the other mixed parallel lines appear to be using the '-' syntax, which doesn't seem to apply that nicely here, so I'm not sure whether red should run from the bottom left to upper right or upper left to bottom right. Any ideas? -- Imperator3733 (talk) 01:28, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

  (umvÜWBl) is "backwards" and should actually be named   (mvÜWBl). The convention is   (1st line)   (2nd line). Useddenim (talk) 10:32, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
I’m on it. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 14:33, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
About halfOne third ✓ done. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 18:41, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
Two thirds ✓ done: Need to work on the tunnels, always a tad harder. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 21:52, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Crossings

Since Imperator3733 (talk · contribs) has been busy filling in many of the empty spaces in the BSicon catalog (thank you), I thought this would be an opportune time to look at naming some of the potential new icons:

     existing crosses        new crosses        not crosses
†            
    (KRZ3+1)   (KRZq3+1)   (KRX)  (KRX2)  ABZ  (KRX2+r) 
  ABZ  (KRZq+1)   (KRX+1)   (KRZ+1-2)  STR+STR  (KRZ+1-2+r) 
   (KRZr+1)  ABZ  (KRXr+1)   (KRZ2-r+1)   (KRZ3-r+1)  ABZ

Useddenim (talk) 01:52, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

I like these names, they seem sensible and easily “deirived” from analogous pre-existing ones. The icons themselves are probably too exotic to warrant wholesale creation and easy to achieve by superimposing or their simple components — with the notable exception of elevated versions. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 15:31, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Added icons

Reposted from Talk:BSicon/Renaming/Archive 4#Added icons.

Hello! Don't know if I am writing on the right page. But I made som new icons to make a map smaller on SvWP.

The icons is:

File:BSicon BHFr@FF.svg
File:BSicon BHF+r@GG.svg
File:BSicon xKBFlg.svg
File:BSicon BHFl@FF.svg
File:BSicon BHF+l@GG.svg

I didn't know if the names got 100% correct, feel free to change them if it's wrong according to the standard. Didn't either put them in the Bilderkatalog-category as the sign says.

Have a nice day! --Civilspanaren (Diskussion) 22:29, 15. Mär. 2013 (CET)

All terminal stations have the root ID "KBHF". Anyway those icons don't need to be terminals, so "BHF-L" or "BHF-R" should be correct. You might wanne discuss this on Talk:BSicons. Bye a×pdeHallo! 23:43, 15. Mär. 2013 (CET)
Consider:
Current Others Should be
  (KBFlf)   (STRlf)   (BHFlf)   (BHFlff)
  (xKBFlg)   (ABZl+xl)   (BHFl+xl)
  (KBFrg)   (STRrg)   (BHFrg)   (BHFrgg)
  (KBFrf)   (STRrf)   (BHFrf)   (BHFrff)
  (KBFlg)   (STRlg)   (BHFlg)   (BHFlgg)
Of course, that presupposes that these should even be kept. Useddenim (talk) 04:48, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

BSicon TEE+

Aren't   (TEEl+xr) and   (TEEr+xl) just special forms of   (KRZ)? AlgaeGraphix (talk) 22:22, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

  •  Support: I can see you point, but I think that seeing these as TEEs is in fact a good idea. The reasoning behind it (which I presume to comprehend fully) is that something like   (TEEr) is a railway impossibility — it should be either   (ABZlg) or   (ABZrf); and therefore TEEs are restricted to situations where they represent something other than a railway (departing from the original semantics).
The   (KRZ), in this regard, is seen as a simple flat cross of two independent rail lines, allowing only two directions and no sharp turns. With this in mind, what would   (TEEl+xr) represent if it were a variant of   (KRZ)? Something like   (but centered), perhaps?, but if so the bumper block should be present, as it is in things like   (ENDExeq). However, if   (TEEl+xr) is seen as a special case of TEE, which allows/presuposes sharp turns, then there’s no need for a bumper block and the meaning is clear.
-- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 01:42, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
  •  Oppose: I cannot, however, extend the same approving rationale to things like   (BHF+TEEr+xr): These are better seen as a mix of a regular station and a terminal station, for which we do have long established icon ID roots — I propose either:
  • BHF+KBHFxr (or, better, BHF+KBHFxeq), based on   (BHF) and   (KBHFxr), or
  • TBHFxr (or, better, TBHFxeq), inspired by   (TBHFr) and   (KBHFxr).
This agrees with the reasoning above by assuming that in every terminal station (KBHF) there is a “hidden” line ending (ENDE), as in  , and therefore   (BHF+TEEr+xr) can be seen as  . -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 12:22, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
I would say that BHF+KRZ, BHF+TEEr & BHF+TEEl should be deleted in favour of the TBHF equivalents. de:WP discusses it here, with no apparent conclusion. (Perhaps someone who is more fluent in German than Google Translate could confirm this?) Interestingly, BHF+KRZ is approved for de:WP’s Bilderkatalog, but   (TBHF) which has been around since 2007 and is fairly widely used (~250 instances), is not. Useddenim (talk) 16:25, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Category:Icons for railway descriptions/stations and stops/BHF/one side/direction

See also: Talk:BSicon/Renaming/Archive 6#Name collision: BHFlf/HSTlf etc.

These names have bothered me (and @Axpde: ) ever since I created the icons...

Old New Reused name
  BHFlf BHFfl  
  BHFrf BHFfr  
  BHFrg BHFgr  
  BHFlg BHFgl  
  BHFll BHFflq
  BHFlr BHFfrq
  BHFrr BHFgrq
  BHFrl BHFglq

This would bring these icons in line with   (STRlf),   (STRf),   (BHFl),   (CONTfq), etc. Useddenim (talk) 00:58, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

In addition to the BHF's, there's also the INT/uINT variants such as   (INTlf),   (INTrf),   (uINTrl),   (utINTll), and parallel variants such as   (vBHFrf-BHFrg).
For the first four, take note that the new suffixes are already in use for some icons (such as   (CONTgl) and   (exCONTfr), alongside the "older" suffixes such as   (CONTlf)). If the change would not cause ambiguity or confusion, then I'm fine with the renaming.
(Also take note of User:京市's misnamed icons,   (exhBHFl),   (uhBHFl),   (uexhBHFl) and in various other colors, uploaded June 2015)
The last four would seem somewhat convoluted, but I don't have any better suggestions at the moment. Some other (non-standard?) variants include   (pBHFrq). NoNews! 10:51, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
Yes! Absolutely. This has bothered me for a while and this scheme of direction and side of track makes perfect sense. Lost on  Belmont 3200N1000W  (talk) 14:56, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
@Lost on Belmont, Newfraferz87, and Useddenim: Since I've requested renames for the second half of the table to BHFlfq etc. per this section, the icons in the fourth column could use the l, r, +l and +r suffices instead. (The existing   (BHFl) and   (BHFr) appear to not be used anywhere, except for one page on ruwiki. There's also a set of four HST icons which uses nonstandard naming. Maybe we could replace all of them with versions with arrows?) Jc86035 (talk • contributions • uploads) 10:18, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Suffixes "o"/"u": before or after "x" & "h"/"t"?

This question came to me while I renamed the   (extTINTxto) icon and its variants   (tTINTto),   (xtTINTto): what is the ideal order of the "o" and "u" with respect to the other suffixes?

As far as I know, this problem mainly pertains to icons with stations/features on junctions, i.e. those with "T" as part of the root id, as they require a grade suffix (none/"h"/"t") for the horizontal track, and an "x" suffix, to be added in front of the grade suffix to denote off-use. The existing naming scheme in icons such as   (uTHSTxu) and   (hTBHFho) also positions the bridge/elevation separation suffixes "o" and "u" after the grade suffix. So we have "x" (for horizontal off-use), "h"/"t" (for grade of horizontal track), and then "o"/"u" (for the elevation difference of vertical versus horizontal).

But this nomenclature may lead to possible problems in understanding the icon, as now the "o"/"u", when paired with the "x", can lead to ambiguity as to which side is off-use.   (THSTxo) can have the unwanted meaning of "x"-ing the "o"ver, i.e. the overcrossing track is ex'd, which is not the case.

I have considered the alternative option of moving the "o"/"u" in front of the "x", as in THSTox / tTINToxt, which helps to visually separate the station/feature and vertical track (the prefix, root and "o"/"u") from the horizontal track (the "x" and "h"/"t"). It is more logically coherent to call an icon "interchange over unused horizontal track" than "interchange with unused horizontal track, vertical track crossing over horizontal track".

But once again, there's different rules for other languages, as well as dozens of icons involved (using these suffixes), including the various diagonal variations (even with somewhat conflicting schemes such as   (exkKRZuxlr+xr),   (KRZoxl) and   (tKRZqf+1tu)), so I am apprehensive to any changes.

Any inputs? NoNews! 10:05, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

@Newfraferz87: I'd rather have the "o" and "u" suffixes right after KRZ/T[BHF]/whatever (per reasons above); it's also consistent with several files which were very recently renamed to have "u" or "o" immediately after the main track's root/suffices (e.g.   (STR3uh);   (STR2+4uhc4)). It also additionally reduces any potential issues with any KRZ icons involving single-line parallel tracks (see the section below). Jc86035 (talk • contributions • uploads) 09:30, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Bridged corner icons

The icons in this set of bridged corners for overlaying (e.g.   (tÜWu1),   (utÜWu4)) are pretty much the only icons left using the ÜW root.[1] Should …ÜWu… be changed to …STRo…, and ÜWt… (e.g.   (ÜWt2)) to lSTRo…? (I'd use c as well but it seems unnecessary given there aren't any naming conflicts.) Jc86035 (talk • contributions • uploads) 06:02, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

References

  1. ↑ Except   (ÜW1dr) and   (ÜW1dl) in the obsolete category, which should really be redirected to   (KRWr+r) and   (KRWl+l).

(Pinging: Useddenim · YLSS · Lost on Belmont · Newfraferz87 · Fukuokakyushu2012 · Sameboat. Jc86035 (talk • contributions • uploads) 15:11, 18 June 2016 (UTC))

BRIDGE root

The BRIDGE root isn't even on w:WP:RDT/C, so I thought it might be a good idea to rename all the icons using it.

Sure it is: en:Wikipedia:Route diagram template/Catalog of pictograms/formations#Bridges. Useddenim (talk) 16:30, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
@Useddenim: I meant, as in, in the list of roots on the main landing page (i.e. the exact page I linked to). It's also kind of inconsistent because it's both longer than 4 letters and not in German. (Can we keep the discussion at the bottom of the table? Thanks.) Jc86035 (talk • contributions • uploads) 16:57, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
Old name New name like notes
  (BRIDGE) lMKRZo   (KRZo) will need to have geometry changed slightly to match
  (BRIDGE-L) ?   (KRZo-L) and   (KRZo-R) are different to these two
  (BRIDGE-R)
  (BRIDGEq) lMKRZu   (KRZu) will need to have geometry changed slightly to match
  (BRIDGEq-L) ?
  (BRIDGEq-R)
  (BRIDGElr) lMKRXo   (KRXo)
  (BRIDGErl) lMKRXu   (KRXu)
  (BRIDGE2+4o) lMKRZ2+4o   (KRZ2+4o) create corner formations for ends? not sure what to call them though
  (BRIDGEq2+4o) lMKRZq2+4o   (KRZq2+4o)
  (BRIDGE3+1o) lMKRZ3+1o   (KRZ3+1o)
  (BRIDGEq3+1o) lMKRZq3+1o   (KRZq3+1o)
  (BRIDGE2+4u) lMKRZ2+4u   (KRZ2+4u)
  (BRIDGEq2+4u) lMKRZq2+4u   (KRZq2+4u)
  (BRIDGE3+1u) lMKRZ3+1u   (KRZ3+1u)
  (BRIDGEq3+1u) lMKRZq3+1u   (KRZq3+1u)
  (BRIDGEl) ? not sure what to call these. maybe just classify them as tunnel portals or something
  (BRIDGEr)
  (BRIDGEf)
  (BRIDGEg)
  (-BRIDGEl)
  (BRIDGEl-)
  (-BRIDGEr)
  (BRIDGEr-)
  (v-BRIDGEf)
  (vBRIDGEf-)
  (v-BRIDGEg)
  (vBRIDGEg-)
  (lhKRZq+4u) lMKRZq+4u this isn't a BRIDGE icon, but the current previousUseddenim (talk) 23:14, 14 August 2016 (UTC) name KRZq+4u implied an icon with tracks so it's not ideal
  (BRIDGEv) lMKRZvo   (KRZvo) formations need to be fixed
  (-BRIDGE) lM-KRZvo? (or KRZ-
  (BRIDGE-) lMKRZvo-? (or -o)
  (vBRIDGE) lMvKRZo   (vKRZo)
  (v-BRIDGE) lMv-KRZo?
  (vBRIDGE-) lMvKRZo-? (or -o)
  (v-BRIDGEv) lMv-KRZvo?   (vKRZvo) formations need to be fixed
  (vBRIDGEv-) lMvKRZ-'vo? formations need to be fixed; apostrophe is to avoid ambiguity. whoever did the krz set really helped by inverting the order of the suffices
  (BRIDGEvq-) lMvKRZ'-vu?   (vKRZvu)
  (-BRIDGEvq) lMvKRZv-u? formations need to be fixed
  (-BRIDGEv) lMvKRZv-o?
  (vBRIDGEq) lMKRZvu   (KRZvu) formations need to be fixed
  (-BRIDGEq) lM-KRZvu? (or KRZ-)
  (BRIDGEq-) lMKRZvu-? (or -u)
  (BRIDGEvq) lMvKRZu   (vKRZu)
  (v-BRIDGEq) lMv-KRZu?
  (vBRIDGEq-) lMvKRZu-? (or -u)
  (dBRIDGE-L) ?
  (dBRIDGE-R)
  (dBRIDGE) lMdKRZo   (dKRZo)
  (dBRIDGEq) lMdKRZu   (dKRZu)
  (dBRIDGEl) ? not sure what to call these. maybe just classify them as tunnel portals or something
  (dBRIDGEr)
  (dBRIDGEf)
  (dBRIDGEg)
  (d-BRIDGE) lMd-KRZvo? (or KRZ-) formations need to be fixed
  (dBRIDGE-) lMdKRZvo-? (or -o)   (dKRZo-)
  (d-BRIDGEq) lMd-KRZvu? (or KRZ-)
  (dBRIDGEq-) lMdKRZvu-? (or -u)
  (dKRZo-) dKRZvo-? (or -o) just for clarity? not sure if this is necessary

Haven't done anything in /half width/uw/crossing/formations yet; maybe someone else could try that? Jc86035 (talk • contributions • uploads) 15:08, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

The root could be shortened to BRG, because bridge is an English/German cognate. Useddenim (talk) 03:32, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
@Useddenim: I'd say changing some of these (particularly the diagonals) to KRZ would be better, as it reflects their actual usage, but I have no objection to using the BRK/BRG root for the single-ended bridges. (If we change   (BRÜCKE1) to BRK/BRG, then we could probably change these icons to match the formations.) Jc86035 (talk • contributions • uploads) 05:26, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
I'm generally against changing the structural legend icons to KRZ, as it simply represents a bridge and not necessary a crossing; there would be naming restrictions to having a KRZ root pertaining to the perpendicular track, but less so with just a BRK / BRG / BRIDGE root. This is also shown with the naming problems with regards to some of the bridge icons listed above. However, those with ambiguous suffixes, such as   (BRIDGErl), can indeed be renamed to proper ones.   ~ Newfitz Yo! 02:20, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
@Newfraferz87: I'd still prefer an lMKRX/Z or lKRX/Z root for the diagonal ones, because it better reflects their actual usage (especially since KRX doesn't have any tunnel versions for some reason). Maybe we could have lKRZ for the ones with masks (since they wouldn't be much use without masks) and lBRK for the ones without (and lMBRK for the ones which would have name conflicts due to only having half a side, I guess). Jc86035 (talk • contributions • uploads) 09:38, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Crossing over roads

Moved to ‎Talk:BSicon/Renaming/Roads #Crossing over roads

BSicon hSTRl.svg and BSicon hSTRr.svg

It would appear that the icons mentioned in the title, along with their u- counterparts, run counter to what the orange, violet, and brown color sets depict, though oddly enough not what the pink color set depicts. I was tempted to use the former direction scheme (hence the 64 icons I uploaded following this), but if I am in error, would it be possible to harmonize these names? Mahir256 (talk) 23:11, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

@Mahir256: Yes, there seems to be an error in the direction:   (STRl),   (tSTRl), but   (hSTRl). (You also seem to have used a template with the old 60px side formations instead of the 50px ones, which should be fixed at some point.)
(pinging Useddenim, Sameboat, Tuvalkin, Lost on Belmont, Newfraferz87) Taking into account that this has been ignored for about 7 years, should we swap all of the icon names or just ignore the issue? It is certainly unnecessarily confusing. Jc86035 (talk • contributions • uploads) 13:17, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
We may rename to STRfq and STRgq like   (CONTfq) and   (CONTgq) for consistency.. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk · contri.) 21:37, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

@Lost on Belmont, Tuvalkin, Sameboat, and Mahir256: ✓ Done Requested moves for all   (STRl) and   (STRr) variations (including the half-stations) to STRfq and STRgq. This also, incidentally, allows   (STRlf),   (STRrf) and the like to be moved to STRr and STRl (plus +l and +r). Jc86035 (talk • contributions • uploads) 09:58, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks to all of you still working on this Gordian Knot! I always said it's to much to much to allow every thinkable combination of every root, line, dot or whatever. And some talks could have been shortened by logical rules, as if it's tKRZtu it should be hKRZhu as well ...

But nevertheless I agress with most of your suggestions above (and if not, who cares ;-) and I'd like to thank you all for your work! a×pdeHello! 07:04, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Arrows

Should the DNUL group of icons be renamed to remove the D prefix (since D usually means "embankment")? Example:   (lvDNULfgq) → lvNUL2+4fg. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 13:29, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Seems like these should be renamed using parallel lines and diagonal structures. Lost on  Belmont 3200N1000W  (talk) 01:17, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
I never liked the D(iagonal) prefix, but Tuvalkin was insistent… Useddenim (talk) 21:30, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
I don’t mind its renaming if the new names fit well the whole system. When I created these, the preffix "D" had been proposed recently and introduced to name icons that were later renamed with corner indications ("3+1" etc.) and at least one special case —   (KRX) (which I find a great idea and a good example of allowable exceptional naming: nobody wants to use STR3+1+STR2+4 for such a simple concept). If the arrow overlays are the last remnant of that old abortive use of "D", let’s rename them. I would oppose though, as said above, suggestions of deletion of part of this system just because good names cannot be found for them. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 23:01, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Border icons

I’ve just finished rationalizing the BL (Black Line) icons (see en:Template:Walkway icons), so maybe it's time to tackle the GRZ (from the German Grenze—border) ones?

Current Proposed
  (GRZ)   (exlGRZ) GRZ
  (vGRZ-) vGRZ-
  (v-GRZ) v-GRZ
  (GRENZE2f)   (exlGRZf) GRZa
  (GRENZE2g)   (exlGRZg) GRZe
  (GRZq)   (exlGRZq) GRZq
  (GRZq-) GRZq-
  (-GRZq) -GRZq
  (GRENZE2l)   (exlGRZl) GRZaq
  (GRENZE2r)   (exlGRZr) GRZeq
  (GRENZE2+q)   (exlGRZ+q) GRZk
  (GRENZE2+l)   (exlGRZ+l) GRZtl
  (GRENZE2q+f)   (exlGRZq+f) GRZtf
  (GRENZE2+r)   (exlGRZ+r) GRZtl
  (GRENZE2q+g)   (exlGRZq+g) GRZtg
  (GRENZE2le)   (exlGRZle) GRZl
  (GRENZE2la)   (exlGRZla) GRZ+l
  (GRENZE2ra)   (exlGRZra) GRZ+r
  (GRENZE2re)   (exlGRZre) GRZr
  (GRENZElf)   (exlGRZlf) GRZlf
  (GRENZErg)   (exlGRZrg) GRZrg
  (GRENZElg)   (exlGRZlg) GRZlg
  (GRENZErf)   (exlGRZrf) GRZrf
  (GRENZE2rg+rf)   (exlGRZ3+1) GRZ3+1
  (GRENZE2lg+lf)   (exlGRZ2+4) GRZ2+4
  (GRENZE2x)   (exlGRZx) GRZx
  (GRENZE2rg)   (exlGRZ+1) GRZ1
  (GRENZE2lf)   (exlGRZ+2) GRZ2
  (GRENZE2rf)   (exlGRZ+3) GRZ3
  (GRENZE2lg)   (exlGRZ+4) GRZ4
  (GRENZE2lf+rg)   (exlGRZlf+rg) GRZl+l
  (GRENZE2lg+rg)   (exlGRZ+23) GRZlr
  (GRENZE2lg+rf)   (exlGRZlg+rf) GRZr+r
  (GRENZE2lg+rf)   (exlGRZ+14) GRZ+lr
  (GRENZEl)   (exlGRZ12) GRZ2+1
  (GRENZEf)   (exlGRZ23) GRZ23
  (GRENZEr)   (exlGRZ34) GRZ3+4
  (GRENZEg)   (exlGRZ14) GRZ14

Useddenim (talk) 03:39, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Seems like a good idea. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 22:51, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
  • I don't disagree with the proposed renaming and, given the very checkered past of this collection's naming, it is a relief to see it finally named in a minimally sensible way. Having been the creator of most these names, though, I want to remind/clarify this point: Unlike the approach followed above (whose spirit is followed up by Jc86035's 04:15 post), which is admitedly the simplest, these were originally seen not as a path/track in themselves, albeit linear, but as an additional feature that may intersect and/or follow a track. That explains most of the apparently capricious names and also some of the design choices. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 22:51, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
  • @Useddenim: Additionally, t would probably be better capitalized (like   (TBHF)) to avoid ambiguity with the existing suffix. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
    to reply to me     10:30, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Parallel stations (legende)

Current Proposed
  (lvBHFf) lBHFc23
  (lvBHFg) lBHFc14
  (exlvBHFf) exlBHFc23
  (exlvBHFg) exlBHFc14

@Useddenim, YLSS, Tuvalkin, and Axpde: Is this okay? Just a minor change for consistency, which would make it a lot easier to rename the parallel half-stations a few sections up. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 13:12, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Hmmm, when reading "c23" i'd expect the corners to be part of the "bullet" ... actually I have no bearing on parallel lines, but it should stay compareable with regular BSicons as   (lBHFf)! a×pdeHello! 15:07, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
@Axpde: Cf.   (lBHFc2) and   (lBHFc3) (less confusing than, say, lv-BHF--BHF or l-vBHF-BHF). Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 15:17, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
When I looked at this, my first thought was that   (lvBHFf) should be renamed l-vBHF and   (lvBHFg) should be lvBHF- . Useddenim (talk) 16:03, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
@Useddenim: Problem being that   (lvBHF-) is something else entirely; to follow this naming pattern we would need both horizontal and vertical parallel lines syntax. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 16:06, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
  • Frankly, this renaming seems wrong to me:
  1. These are double stations, for parallel lines, one expects a "v" preffix. (They are also both symmetrical and to be used with vertical lines, so that pesky illogical rule about supressing the "v" preffix for assymetrical icons for parallel lines across doesn’t apply.)
  2. These stations has nothing to do with corners, and all to do with regular stations moved back or fro, so not only the new names are wrong but also the old names are correct.
  3. This is a «change for consistency» — with what?
-- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 18:45, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Agree (with Tuválkin): parsing the existing name gives legend v (parallel) BahnHoF moved forward; so it seems there's no need to change. Useddenim (talk)

@Tuvalkin and Useddenim: It's inconsistent with   (lBHFf) and   (lBHFg), which are moved forward or backward 250px as opposed to 125px. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 03:52, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
I see — well, then maybe the best is to rename   (lBHFf) and   (lBHFg) respectively to   (lBHFff) and   (lBHFgg) (and ditto for their double line and/or line across variants). Would need some considerable moving and editing, but we’d end up with a simpler, more solid nomenclature. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 16:18, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
@Tuvalkin: Makes sense; would align this series with   (v-STRlf) and similar. (  (l-BHF) might end up as l-BHFq or lBHFf though.) Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 05:35, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

LSTR endings

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin, and Sameboat: Because of a potential conflict with   (tLSTRe)…

Current Proposed
  (LSTRa) KLSTRa
  (LSTRe) KLSTRe
Repeat for all variations

Not sure about the prefix order though. (PS are there any elevated versions of LSTRa/e, or LSTR elevated–ground transitions?) Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 08:22, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

I don't think there should be K prefix on this, since it isn't a line beginning/end. (See   (tSTRa),   (hSTRe), for example.) Useddenim (talk) 10:45, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
CONTgq LSTRq LSTReq LSTRaq CONTfq
@Useddenim: It isn't? (see   (KSTRa)) [I'd use a wider map but apparently no one bothered to copy over {{BS7}}.] Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 10:59, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
@Jc86035: AFAIK, all K-icons start at the centre. Useddenim (talk) 14:23, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
@Useddenim: I guess we could instead use the f and g suffixes (like   (ENDEf)) to prevent naming conflicts for (e.g.) a tunnel version of LSTRe. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 14:33, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
Wouldn't KLSTRa just be the same as   (LENDEa) without the black bar? Useddenim (talk) 16:09, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
@Useddenim: Hmm I guess so. I'd still prefer to rename them though (enabling tunnel versions), so maybe LSTRa → LSTRg and LSTRe → LSTRf? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 16:15, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
I'm not sure that that would be any better, as a/e denote start/end, while f/g are moved forward/backward. Useddenim (talk) 16:37, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

@Useddenim: would KLSTRag / ef be valid? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 03:39, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

(sigh) yes… Useddenim (talk) 03:46, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

mBS2 ?

moved from User talk:Axpde

Gibt es Misch-Icons für BS2? (mBS2 -> gerader Strang Heavy, corner light; umBS2 -> gerader Strang light, corner heavy). Diese Erweiterung müsste mit den gängigen BS2-Bezeichnungen möglich sein. Ein Anfang wurde mit   (eBS2lb) gemacht, doch dieses Icon entspricht zum einen nicht der üblichen BS2-Notierung und ist zum anderen nur ein kleiner Bestandteil aller BS2-Icons. Da du meines Wissens alle BS2er erstellt hast, ware es nett, wenn du diese dazufügen könntest. --C21H22N2O2 (talk) 08:47, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
Are there mixed icons for BS2? (MBS2 -> straight strand Heavy, corner light; umBS2 -> straight strand light, corner heavy). This expansion should be possible with the usual BS2 designations. A start was made with (eBS2lb), but this icon does not correspond to the usual BS2 listing and is only a small part of all BS2 icons. Since you have to my knowledge created all BS2er, it would be nice if you could add these.

Ich glaube, das sollte korrekt benannt werden   (xmBS2l) (x Hauptmerkmal außer Betrieb, m gemischte Linien, BS2 Verschiebung 2/4 l nach links). Ich werde diese Symbole nächste Woche (nach Thanksgiving), wenn niemand anderes zu suchen. Useddenim (talk) 04:37, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
I believe this should be named correctly xmBS2l (x main feature out of operation, m mixed lines, BS2 shift 2/4 l to the left). I will take care of these icons next week (after Thanksgiving) if no one else does.
Klingt plausibel :-) Gruß a×pdeHello! 16:58, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
Sounds plausible
Die Umbenennung passt auf jeden Fall ins Schema. Wenn die Icons da sind, freu ich mich auf jeden Fall. Danke für die schnelle Hilfe! --C21H22N2O2 (talk) 17:18, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
The rename fits in any case into the schema. If the icons are there, I am happy in any case. Thanks for the quick help!

CPIC

And while we’re at it, maybe we should look at the CPIC icons, too? Sortening the root from CPIC to CP will allow for such compound constructions as (Cross Platform Banhof quer ende),  (CPXu) , etc.

Present Proposed
  (CPICqq)   (CP)
  (dCPICqq)   (dCP)
  (CPICuu)   (CPa)
  (CPICdd)   (CPe)
  (CPICll)   (CPr)
  (dCPICll)   (dCPr)
  (CPICrr)   (CPl)
  (dCPICrr)   (dCPl)
  (CPIC)   (CPq)
  (dCPIC)   (dCPq)
  (CPIClf)   (CPlf)
  (CPIClg)   (CPlg)
  (CPICrf)   (CPrf)
  (CPICrg)   (CPrg)
  (CPICal)   (CPal)
  (CPICar)   (CPar)
  (CPICel)   (CPel)
  (CPICer)   (CPer)
  (CPTa)
  (CPTe)
  (CPTl)
  (CPTr)
  (CPICpasso)   (CPo)
  (CPICpassu)   (CPu)
  (exCPICpasso)   (exCPo)
  (exCPICpassu)   (exCPu)
  (extCPICpasso)   (extCPo)
  (extCPICpassu)   (extCPu)
  (tCPICpasso)   (tCPo)
  (tCPICpassu)   (tCPu)
  (vCPICpassu)   (vCPu)
 
Present Proposed
  (CPICr)   (CPBr)
  (CPICm)   (CPBlr)
  (eCPICm)   (eCPBlr)
  (exCPICm)   (exCPBlr)
  (CPICla)   (CPKal)
  (ehaCPICl)   (ehaCPBl)
  (CPICma)   (CPKalr)
  (xCPICma)   (CPKxalr)
  (CPICra)   (CPKar)
  (CPICKa)   (CPKae)
  (CPICle)   (CPKel)
  (CPICme)   (CPKelr)
  (xCPICme)   (CPKxelr)
  (CPICre)   (CPKer)
  (heCPICr)   (heCPBr)
  (hCPICrxe)   (hCPKxer)
  (CPICKe)   (CPKea)
  (CPICl)   (CPBl)
  (CPICa)   (CPBqa)
  (CPICe)   (CPBqe)
  (tCPICm)   (tCPBlr) etc.
  (uCPICm)   (uCPBlr) etc.
  (CPICAm)   (CPAlr) etc.
  (INTCPICm)   (CPIlr) etc.

Obviously, not all possible combinations are shown.

Useddenim (talk) 21:52, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Well, I like it. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 22:06, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
@Useddenim: It looks good, although I'm not sure using e as a prefix to denote "end of bridge" is a very good idea. As with the previous section, I'd rather use (e.g.) CP+r than CPlg. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 03:40, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
With   (ehaCPBl) and   (heCPBr) the a and e are a suffix to the h prefix. Useddenim (talk) 03:48, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
also: Maybe use CPKB instead of CPK for consistency? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 10:32, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
The rest is good, my opinion is the lf/lg/rf/rg suffices which should be replaced by the newly proposed changes. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk · contri.) 13:28, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

@Useddenim: I've renamed two of these partially (temporarily?) according to the proposal to avoid a conflict (  (hCPICre) →   (heCPICr)). Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 15:11, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Elevated formations

(pinging Useddenim, Sameboat, Tuvalkin) Do -L and -R mean "formations only on one side" (  (hBHF-L)) or "icon shifted to the side" (  (hSTR-L))? I'm inclined towards the latter, as the former is inconsistent (see   (BHF-L)) and easily replaceable using overlays instead. Jc86035 (talk • contributions • uploads) 16:03, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

@Sameboat and Useddenim: Would it be better for the first case to add the -L/-R suffix to h instead of at the end (since, again, that seems to be syntactically valid)? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 15:25, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

-lf and -rg suffixes / -L and -R suffixes

moved from en:User talk:Useddenim

This is just a half-formed thought, but I'm wondering about finally renaming all the [lr][fg]-suffixed BSicons to the (+)[lr] suffices, if I have time. (The suffices still confuse me sometimes because they're quite unintuitive even for BSicons.)

This could be done by first renaming the one-sided stations   (BHFl), (-r) to BHFlr, -rl over the current redirects (etymology: [root][f-direction side][g-direction side]); and the half-station icons   (lBHFl), (-r) to something like KBHFl-R and -r-L. (KBHF[lr] to KBHF[ea]q could also be considered.) After uses of those are replaced (AWB on at least enwiki), I think that removes pretty much all the naming conflicts which could possibly occur, and allows things like   (uhBHFl).

Your thoughts? —Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 14:45, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

There's also   (hBHF-L) and   (hBHF-R). This is rather tangential, but those probably aren't named correctly since they'd be like   (uhBHF-L). Maybe just delete and replace them with overlays? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 14:55, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 08:42, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Ah yes, among my earliest icon contributions...
Since   (lBHF) ⇒   (lBHFf), then   (lBHFl) should actually be   (lBHFfq).
WRT to the -L and -R suffixes, for stations it means "connects to the left/right", whereas for formations it means "on the left/right (only)". You may want to double-check with Axpde and/or Tuvalkin, though. Useddenim (talk) 17:03, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
@Useddenim: The problem with having that rule for non-legende formations is that we don't really have a nice alternative to using   (uhBHF-L)/R, and it's already inconsistent with   (hSTR-R). I might post a proposal on the Commons talk page for the one-sided stations. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 03:47, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
Good idea. Useddenim (talk) 11:05, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

@Useddenim: Well, since this section is now here, let's make a table.

Semicircular stations
Current Proposed Notes
  (BHFl)   (BHFlr) Move over redirect
  (BHFr)   (BHFrl) Move over redirect
  (epBHFl)   (epBHFlr)
  (epBHFr)   (epBHFrl)
  (expBHFl)   (expBHFlr)
  (expBHFr)   (expBHFrl)
  (pBHFl)   (pBHFlr)
  (pBHFr)   (pBHFrl)
  (xpBHFl)   (xpBHFlr)
  (xpBHFr)   (xpBHFrl)
  (pBHFrq)   (pBHFrlq)
  (HSTd)   (HSTlr)
  (HSTu)   (HSTrl)
  (HHSTl)   (HSTlrq)
  (HHSTr)   (HSTrlq)
  (uxpBHFl)   (upBHFlr)
  (uxpBHFr)   (upBHFrl)
  (upBHFrq)   (upBHFrlq)
  (uxpBHFf)   (-uepBHF) This is just named incorrectly
  (uHSTd)   (uHSTlr)
  (uHSTu)   (uHSTrl)
  (uHHSTl)   (uHSTlrq)
  (uHHSTr)   (uHSTrlq)
  (uexHSTd)   (uexHSTlr)
  (uexHSTu)   (uexHSTrl)
  (uexHHSTl)   (uexHSTlrq)
  (uexHHSTr)   (uexHSTrlq)

Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 11:42, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

TL;DR: This removes one of the name conflicts preventing the complete deprecation of the lf, lg, rf and rg suffixes. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 13:23, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

"Festina lente!" - one step after the other, we won't find the Egg of Columbus this way! a×pdeHello! 20:33, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

@Axpde and Useddenim: I'm not entirely sure what that means, but in any case, here's another few tables.

Half-stations (legende)
Current Proposed
  (lBHFl) lBHFfq
  (lBHFr) lBHFgq
  (exlBHFl) exlBHFfq
  (exlBHFr) exlBHFgq
  (ulBHFl) ulBHFfq
  (ulBHFr) ulBHFgq
  (uexlBHFl) uexlBHFfq
  (uexlBHFr) uexlBHFgq
  (lHSTl) lHSTfq
  (lHSTr) lHSTgq
  (exlHSTl) exlHSTfq
  (exlHSTr) exlHSTgq
  (ulHSTl) ulHSTfq
  (ulHSTr) ulHSTgq
  (uexlHSTl) uexlHSTfq
  (uexlHSTr) uexlHSTgq
Half-stations (legende)
Current Proposed
  (lDSTl) lDSTfq
  (lDSTr) lDSTgq
  (exlDSTl) exlDSTfq
  (exlDSTr) exlDSTgq
  (ulDSTl) ulDSTfq
  (ulDSTr) ulDSTgq
  (uexlDSTl) uexlDSTfq
  (uexlDSTr) uexlDSTgq
  (lBSTl) lBSTfq
  (lBSTr) lBSTgq
  (exlBSTl) exlBSTfq
  (exlBSTr) exlBSTgq
  (ulBSTl) ulBSTfq
  (ulBSTr) ulBSTgq
  (uexlBSTl) uexlBSTfq
  (uexlBSTr) uexlBSTgq
Half-stations (legende)
Current Proposed
  (lINTl) lINTfq
  (lINTr) lINTgq
  (exlINTl) exlINTfq
  (exlINTr) exlINTgq
  (lACC-L) lACCfq
  (lACC-R) lACCgq
  (ldBHFr) ldBHFgq
  (exldBHFl) exldBHFfq
  (ldHSTl) ldHSTfq
  (ldHSTr) ldHSTgq
  (exldHSTl) exldHSTfq
  (uldHSTl) uldHSTfq
  (uexldHSTl) uexldHSTfq
  (ldBSTl) ldBSTfq
  (exldBSTl) exldBSTfq
  (uldBSTl) uldBSTfq
  (uexldBSTl) uexldBSTfq
  • "q" should be only used for tracks running across, all other "ideas" are neither intuitively nor consistently! a×pdeHello! 13:57, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
    • I always assumed q meant "rotate 90° anticlockwise around the centre", assuming you're referring to the legende stations. Are there any inconsistencies with this? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
      to reply to me       14:05, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
      • I introduced the "q" prefix 2006 for tracks running across (German: "quer") and that's exactly what I always pleed to respect. The big problem with "rotate quarter" is what what direction? There is simply no consistent way to make sure every icon creator will obey the same direction! The "mathematical order" is anti-clockwise, but every non-mathematician will tend to see on his (analogue) watch ... bad idea! a×pdeHello! 14:46, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
        • There haven't ever been more than 10 people actively uploading icons at any point in this decade, so probably not a lot of issues with newbies (who are probably going to make other naming mistakes anyway). Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
          to reply to me           14:58, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
Switchback stations
These could probably use better naming (like ABZl+l+BHFfq), but this might not work for the wide icons.
Current Proposed (Axpde) Proposed (Jc86035)
  (KBFl) ABHFl+l ABZBHFl+l
  (KBFr) ABHFr+r ABZBHFr+r
  (eKBFl) eABHFl+l eABZBHFl+l
  (xKBFl) ABHFxl+l ABZBHFxl+l
  (xKBFlg) ABHFl+xl ABZBHFl+xl
  (exKBFl) exABHFl+l exABZBHFl+l
  (exKBFr) exABHFr+r exABZBHFr+r
  (tKBFl) tABHFl+l tABZBHFl+l
  (tKBFr) tABHFr+r tABZBHFr+r
  (umtKBFr) umtABHFr+r umtABZBHFr+r
  (tKBFlfxq) xtABHFq+l tABZBHFxq+l
  (tKBFlgxq) xtABHFql tABZBHFlxq
  (utKBFlfxq) uxtABHFq+l utABZBHFxq+l
  (bKBHFl) bKBHFl+l bABZKBHFl+l
  (bKBHFr) bKBHFr+r bABZKBHFr+r
  (exbKBHFl) exbKBHFl+l exbABZKBHFl+l
  (exbKBHFr) exbKBHFr+r exbABZKBHFr+r
  (bKS+BHFl) bS+KBHFl+l bS+ABZKBHFl+l
  (bKS+BHFr) bS+KBHFr+r bS+ABZKBHFr+r
  • KBF is an old leftover, should be KBHF for consistency reasons!
    • @Axpde: KBF → KBHF would create a conflict with   (KBFrg) etc., which would – assuming we proceed with the second stage – be renamed to   (KBHFr). So would all the   (KBHFl),   (KBHFr) icons – as mentioned above – have to be renamed to KBHFfq, KBHFgq? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
      to reply to me       14:05, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
    • @Axpde: Also, re. the question marks on tKBHFxq+l etc: I took the naming pattern from the ABZ series (e.g.   (ABZq+l)), but added the x before q because the prefixes could refer to the station circle / the whole junction. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
      to reply to me       14:10, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
    • (Pinging Useddenim, Tuvalkin, Lost on Belmont. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
      to reply to me       14:15, 18 September 2016 (UTC))
      • I agree with you, the regular sized icons shouldn't be called KBHF, even worse they are not imperatively terminal stations (German: "Kopfbahhof"), see , that why they should be called ABHF for Abzweigbahnhof (Austrian for "Trennungsbahnhof" or "junction station"! a×pdeHello! 14:46, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
        • @Axpde: A might cause some naming problems with the road series, and I'm not sure it's a good idea to introduce a new prefix for something this specific. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
          to reply to me           14:58, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
          • I don't know who introduced AKRZ for an autoroute crossing, should have been an ABRÜCKE or whatever you prefer, but that shouldn't be a reason to back off from using a very consistent meaning: ABHF (for "Abzweigbahnhof") is simply the combination of ABZ (for "Abzweig") and BHF (for Bahnhof), which will even understand those users who know ABZ and BHF and their use without knowing the German descent! a×pdeHello! 16:34, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
            • I guess there's also BHFABZ (like   (BHFABZgl+l)). From that, we could make KBHFABZ, or simply swap them around to make ABZBHF (like   (eABZHSTrd), which should really be eABZHSTgr+r). Both of them avoid making a new prefix (also: unused   (ATUNNELlu), which I should have renamed with   (htSTRaq), but didn't). Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
              to reply to me               12:12, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
              • I don't like those "double roots", "ABHF" is intuitively understandable as an abbreviation of "ABZ(+)BHF", same with "AHST" (which is impossible by german railways law) short for "ABZ(+)HST"! And btw. I really don't see the reason for the "A" in that tunnel icon ... a×pdeHello! 18:07, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
                • @Axpde: Well, I guess we could have two separate prefixes for "little stations around junction" and "station on junction", but there's also   (BHFWYEf+14) (and two others), which would make things more complicated. Probably best to have compound prefixes (they're already used in things like   (HSTACC) anyway, so probably aren't going anywhere). Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
                  to reply to me                   12:29, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
                  • Arghh, I never understood why we need those specialized icons while having the possibility to overlay ... at least outside dewiki :-(   is the same as   ... btw lHSTACC should be shortened ... maybe lACCs ("small"?). a×pdeHello! 20:59, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
  • @Axpde, Useddenim, and Tuvalkin: Found a different solution:   (KBFl) →   (BHFsl+l), per   (STRsl); KBHF for wide icons. (Also, rename   (STRsl) and   (STRsr) to ENDEsl+l and …r+r respectively.) Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
    to reply to me     07:11, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
I do like this solution. It’s a good sign that something like   (STRsl) gets a new name including "ENDE". -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 16:37, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
@Tuvalkin: I think that for the switchback icons, which weren't renamed along with the stations, it might be better to use the A (pseudo-?)prefix instead of the s suffix for consistency. This would make them AENDEl+l and …r+r, and the s suffix—not used for anything else—could then potentially be freed up for other things, for example to denote a 25.6° slant. —Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 09:49, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
I like   (AENDE). Useddenim (talk) 15:20, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
@Useddenim: given the lack of opposition towards this particular proposal, could we rename the icons? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 13:27, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
@Axpde: your thoughts (  (STRsl) → AENDEl+l)? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 13:28, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
Sounds reasonable to me. But this talk thread grows a) gigantic b) unreadable c) confused ... ;-) a×pdeHello! 20:15, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
d) All of the above. 8) Useddenim (talk) 01:57, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
@Useddenim and Axpde: (I've renamed the files.) This is a very confusing thread, yes. Maybe create a new section to finish off the loose ends (if any)? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 11:01, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
Some years ago, Axpde adamantly insisted (with reference to  (CONT+ABZ) , IIRC) that there should not be multiple features on an icon, yet WP:DE seems to strongly resist any attempt to eliminate the   (KBF) icons… Useddenim (talk) 14:37, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
@Useddenim: I'd support deleting the wide icons (because they're easily replaceable) and anything that's not in use, and renaming the rest to stuff like STRl+BHFfq. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 14:51, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
The broad icons with the terminal stations are in used in dewiki, they are simple and useful, no need to delete them. a×pdeHello! 16:37, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
@Axpde: None of them are used on more than 10 articles each; renaming them from KBF to KBHF or something else would be rather fiddly since ABZs usually stretch to the edges of an icon and KBHFs are normally in the centre of icons. Syntactically, much easier to replace and delete them. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 12:12, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
But we don't need any crooks, we have the icons we need, we want to keep them, period. Don't fix what's not broken! a×pdeHello! 18:07, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
@Axpde: Then maybe replace the root with ABZKBHF / ABZKSBHF? Alternatively AKBHF? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 12:29, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
Why insisting in the "K" prefix? As said before those icons don't need to be terminal stations, so the "K" is missleading! The root "ABHF" is sufficient. a×pdeHello! 20:45, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
@Axpde: Well, because you put the suffix in the table above for bKBHFr and the other wide icons. I'm using both K and A(BZ) because bA(BZ)BHF would mean that the line goes to the left or right edge of the icon (like the normal-sized icons) and just using bKBHFr would conflict with the meaning of   (KBHFr). Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 03:46, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
To expand on my thought above, all of these icons could easily be replaced with overlays, but to quote Metrophil at Talk:BSicon/New icons and icon requests#uxmABZrg tunnel version, “We do not use overlay on German Wikipedia.” Perhaps the better (long-term) solution would be to either add overlay functionality to WP:DE’s {{BSu-table}} or—dare I say it—port {{Routemap}} over. Useddenim (talk) 01:06, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
To make it clear: I alread coded an overlay possibility that was 100% consistent with the old usage. But some stubborn users of dewiki adamantly oppose even the possibility to overlay BSicons. Can't tell you why, the only reason I know of was that M$ Internet Exploiter 6 (!) is not capable of showing those! a×pdeHello! 18:07, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
@Axpde: Wo wurde sowas diskutiert? Könnte man das Thema nicht nochmal aufbringen? Ich fände es echt besser und um einiges einfacher, wenn wir Overlay auch benutzen könnten. (Where was this discussed? Wouldn’t it be possible to raise that topic again? I think it would really be better and easier if we could use overlay on de.wp too) -- Metrophil (talk) 15:55, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
In dewiki? An vielen Stellen, das letzte Mal unter de:Portal Diskussion:Bahn/Archiv/2014/III#Überlagerung von BSicons – leider ohne Erfolg ... (It's been discussed in dewiki several times, last one can be found at de:Portal Diskussion:Bahn/Archiv/2014/III#Überlagerung von BSicons) a×pdeHello! 20:42, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

@Axpde and Useddenim: A few others:

Current Jc86035's proposal axpde's proposal
  (pHSTl) pHSTlr pHSTg
  (pHSTr) pHSTrl pHSTf
  (xpHSTl) xpHSTlr – (makes no sense)
  (xpHSTr) xpHSTrl – (makes no sense)
  (uxpHSTl) upHSTlr upHSTg
  (uxpHSTr) upHSTrl upHSTf

Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 08:49, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

To be honest those icons aren't in our "Bilderkatalog" and are only very seldom used in dewiki. IMHO it's a bad idea to use the "l"- and "r"-suffix in a meaning other than "track running to left/right". In this case it's the question of driving direction (forward or against, seen in right hand side driving order). a×pdeHello! 20:42, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
We already have   (BHFf) (which is the entire reason we can rename the   (lBHFr) group), so pHSTf would just mean a normal pHST is moved forwards half an icon space. As you said below… Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 03:46, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

@Tuvalkin and Useddenim: I'm considering renaming the KBHF[lr] icons anyway even if there don't turn out to be any naming conflicts, as they'd otherwise be the last usage of the l and r suffixes for anything not containing curves. Some icons, like   (KBHFeq brown), have already been renamed (mostly by YLSS) or, like   (KBHFeq orange), were created with that naming. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 11:57, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Once again: Don't fix what's not broken! a×pdeHello! 20:59, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
@Axpde: Or we could, instead, rename the coloured icons. Whichever way works, but keeping l/r means that   (bKBHFr) (both currently and if we renamed it under your proposal) would mean (and currently means) a completely different thing from   (KBHFr). Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 03:46, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Oh, and we also seem to have forgotten the   (CPICrf) group, which would become   (CPICr). Could we just rename all the CPIC icons without a station or line in them to lCPIC etc.? Would make things much easier. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 03:50, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Other things

Current Proposed
  (lvINTlq)
  (lvINTrq)
  (ldvINTlq)		 Non-standard naming; delete and replace (2 uses) with overlaid   (lvINTq)
  (bvKBHFr-STR) bvKBHFr+r-STR? This appears to be used only in the BSicon navbox as a decoration, not sure how useful this could possibly be – at least for dewiki withouth overlay possibility :-(
  (ABZl+l+HSTl) AHSTl+l OK
  (ABZr+r+HSTr) AHSTr+r OK

(Pinging Sameboat, because pagemover rights.) Should the KBHFl/r icons be renamed? I might have missed a few icons or used the wrong naming patterns, so please correct me below. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 10:53, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

  • Concerning   (bvKBHFr-STR) above, it was not created «as a decoration» (!). It was originally created for a (never completed) diagram of the Darjeeling Himalayan Railway (see here), which was later developed and end up not needing it. The suggested name is better than the one I used — although I’m not (yet) fully convinced about this way of naming switchback stations. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 21:12, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
    • @Tuvalkin: We could also use compound roots ABZKBHF or AKBHF instead (based on ABZHST and Axpde's proposed ABHF respectively), since using KBHF would also require that all variations of KBHFl/r be renamed to KBHFfq/gq to avoid more naming conflicts. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
      to reply to me       02:23, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
      • Nope! There is no need to rename any KBHF icon because none of them have a track running across ("q")! I know you like your idea to convert the meaning of the q-suffix, but I don't do that! And behalf of dewiki we don't want to rename those icons! a×pdeHello! 20:25, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Proposed changes

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin, Axpde, Lost on Belmont, Sameboat, and Newfraferz87: Are there any problems with the below set of changes? (I'm switching to Axpde's ABHF because it'd be weird/inconsistent to use "ABZBHF" for icons without any actual junction. The CPIC renames can wait for now, since there aren't actually any conflicts.)

Semicircular stations
Current Proposed Notes
  (BHFl) BHFlr Move over redirect
  (BHFr) BHFrl Move over redirect
  (epBHFl) epBHFlr
  (epBHFr) epBHFrl
  (expBHFl) expBHFlr
  (expBHFr) expBHFrl
  (pBHFl) pBHFlr
  (pBHFr) pBHFrl
  (xpBHFl) xpBHFlr
  (xpBHFr) xpBHFrl
  (pBHFrq) pBHFrlq
  (HSTu) HSTlr
  (HSTd) HSTrl
  (HHSTl) HSTlrq
  (HHSTr) HSTrlq
  (uxpBHFl) upBHFlr
  (uxpBHFr) upBHFrl
  (upBHFrq) upBHFrlq
  (uxpBHFf) -uepBHF Named incorrectly
  (uHSTu) uHSTlr
  (uHSTd) uHSTrl
  (uHHSTl) uHSTlrq
  (uHHSTr) uHSTrlq
  (uexHSTu) uexHSTlr
  (uexHSTd) uexHSTrl
  (uexHHSTl) uexHSTlrq
  (uexHHSTr) uexHSTrlq
  (pHSTl) pHSTlr
  (pHSTr) pHSTrl
  (xpHSTl) xpHSTlr
  (xpHSTr) xpHSTrl
  (uxpHSTl) upHSTlr
  (uxpHSTr) upHSTrl
Half-stations (legende)
Current Proposed
  (lBHFl) lBHFfq
  (lBHFr) lBHFgq
  (exlBHFl) exlBHFfq
  (exlBHFr) exlBHFgq
  (ulBHFl) ulBHFfq
  (ulBHFr) ulBHFgq
  (uexlBHFl) uexlBHFfq
  (uexlBHFr) uexlBHFgq
  (lHSTl) lHSTfq
  (lHSTr) lHSTgq
  (exlHSTl) exlHSTfq
  (exlHSTr) exlHSTgq
  (ulHSTl) ulHSTfq
  (ulHSTr) ulHSTgq
  (uexlHSTl) uexlHSTfq
  (uexlHSTr) uexlHSTgq
  (lDSTl) lDSTfq
  (lDSTr) lDSTgq
  (exlDSTl) exlDSTfq
  (exlDSTr) exlDSTgq
  (ulDSTl) ulDSTfq
  (ulDSTr) ulDSTgq
  (uexlDSTl) uexlDSTfq
  (uexlDSTr) uexlDSTgq
Half-stations (legende)
Current Proposed
  (lBSTl) lBSTfq
  (lBSTr) lBSTgq
  (exlBSTl) exlBSTfq
  (exlBSTr) exlBSTgq
  (ulBSTl) ulBSTfq
  (ulBSTr) ulBSTgq
  (uexlBSTl) uexlBSTfq
  (uexlBSTr) uexlBSTgq
  (lINTl) lINTfq
  (lINTr) lINTgq
  (exlINTl) exlINTfq
  (exlINTr) exlINTgq
  (lACC-L) lACCfq
  (lACC-R) lACCgq
  (ldBHFr) ldBHFgq
  (exldBHFl) exldBHFfq
  (ldHSTl) ldHSTfq
  (ldHSTr) ldHSTgq
  (exldHSTl) exldHSTfq
  (uldHSTl) uldHSTfq
  (uexldHSTl) uexldHSTfq
  (ldBSTl) ldBSTfq
  (exldBSTl) exldBSTfq
  (uldBSTl) uldBSTfq
  (uexldBSTl) uexldBSTfq
Switchback stations
Current Proposed
  (KBFl) ABHFl+l
  (KBFr) ABHFr+r
  (eKBFl) eABHFl+l
  (xKBFl) ABHFxl+l
  (xKBFlg) ABHFl+xl
  (exKBFl) exABHFl+l
  (exKBFr) exABHFr+r
  (tKBFl) tABHFl+l
  (tKBFr) tABHFr+r
  (umtKBFr) umtABHFr+r
  (tKBFlfxq) tABHFxq+l
  (tKBFlgxq) tABHFlxq
  (utKBFlfxq) utABHFxq+l
  (bKBHFl) bAKBHFl+l
  (bKBHFr) bAKBHFr+r
  (exbKBHFl) exbAKBHFl+l
  (exbKBHFr) exbAKBHFr+r
  (bKS+BHFl) bS+AKBHFl+l
  (bKS+BHFr) bS+AKBHFr+r
  (bvKBHFr-STR) bvAKBHFr+r-STR
  (ABZl+l+HSTl) AHSTl+l
  (ABZr+r+HSTr) AHSTr+r
Other
Current Proposed
  (STRsl) AENDEl+l
  (STRsr) AENDEr+r
  (exSTRsl) exAENDEl+l
  (exSTRsr) exAENDEr+r
  (lvINTlq) lINTfq-INTfq
  (lvINTrq) lINTgq-INTgq
  (ldvINTlq) ldINTfq-INTfq

—Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 15:14, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

I guess if no one can be bothered to reply or anything I'll just request all the renames in about three weeks or so. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 11:19, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

@Useddenim, Sameboat, Tuvalkin, and Axpde: All the icons (sans the "Other" table) have been renamed, so I guess that clears the way for finally replacing the lf, lg, rf and rg suffixes. (By the time that's been finalised, hopefully en:WP:BOTREQ#BSicons will have been completed.) Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 05:25, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Tangential

There are icons in this category which seem to be named very strangely. Might be best to replace them with standard-width icons (which don't seem to exist yet).
Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 10:53, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

I created these half icons to allow any variation of   (vBHFq) to be displayed without having to create each and every individual icon. Yes, the naming isn't perfect, but it was the best we came up with at the time. Useddenim (talk) 11:20, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
@Useddenim: From a quick scan, they don't seem to be used very widely anyway (only found one), so we could just create icons for the few diagrams where they're used (plus a few other basic ones). Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 13:18, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
  •  Oppose: Guys, there’s two things that may happen:
  1. When we find a misnamed icon, we rename it to a better name that follows our naming rules. (Yes, some times is very hard to come up with a good name, some times this process may even call for changes in the naming rules.)
  2. And when we find an icon that doesn’t make sense within the whole BSicon universe, based on the nature of its topology and/or semantics, we delete it, replacing its usage, if any, with conventional icons.
What we should never do is to try to solve complex naming issues with deletion of the icon in question. I’ve seen this proposed a couple times in this section and before, and this trend gotta stop. We come a long way of improving and developing of a system that was originally much small-scoped and which had some flaws; it’s not time for U-turns.   -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 14:59, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
@Tuvalkin: Keeping + renaming would likely end up being something like dlBHFfq-BHFfq for   (d-BHF-L), not opposed but practically none of the icons are used anyway. It's also much easier to overlay   (lvBHFq) and variants over plain tracks. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 12:13, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
Yep, make use of overlay. I'd wish I had this in dewiki, too! a×pdeHello! 20:59, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
@Axpde: If only we could add overlay or {{Routemap}} to dewiki. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 03:03, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

KRW bridges

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin, and Sameboat: I requested renames for a bunch of ÜWB icons to match the pattern of   (KRWgo+l), but didn't realise there was also another naming pattern (  (extKRWl+lo) etc.). Which one of these is correct/preferable? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 14:14, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

The former is a relic from the ÜW days. The latter pattern is newer and more universally applied. Useddenim (talk) 14:16, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
And why haven't you applied for Filemover privileges for yourself, so you don't have to keep making move requests? Useddenim (talk) 14:21, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
@Useddenim: Thanks for the suggestion. I've requested the right. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 14:30, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
@Useddenim: Did I move them correctly? It's a little weird how the suffix u/o always refers to the bottom track, but the prefixes' "main line" is always the track on the bridge. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 10:57, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
Should the e/x prefixes have been replaced with xl/xr/+xl/+xr suffixes? Not sure about the m/um prefixes, though. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{ping|Jc86035}}
to reply to me 11:04, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
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